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Old 06-29-2014, 06:12 PM   #1
Knyte
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Default So...I'm clearly missing something, but no clue as to what (VRS...I tolerate you now)

Been wanting to try my hand at weapon porting...since ffxi dat modding/etc. has gone down the ol' porcelain throne. After several past failures of various weapons and various days/hours of wishing for a raven to pluck out my eyes, I actually got past figuring out how to navigate the goddamn schematic page (seriously, people who wrote those porting guides, haven't you ever taken a technical writing course? Or at least heard of K.I.S.S.? Toss some basic keyboard commands into those things for those of us who are completely vrs illiterate!)

So, following two guides as reference points (mooshy's being one of them as its pretty much not a matter of choice, but a lack of options), I got through all the model loading, copy-pasta, and crap and got to the weights....and I'm stymied.
I highlight the small black boxes like the guide say...
I select the vortexes as the guide say...
I go to view -> envelope open, and...nada. No weights listed...
I try a normal dat from ffxi, follow the same directions and...no weights listed. I try searching till google bitch slaps me for skipping dinner and several hours of sleep, and I can't find anything even remotely hinting as to why I'm not seeing any weights pop up. I read that skeleton stuff is automatically uploaded when you use the race tab in load model button thingy...but fat lot of good that does me.

I'm trying to port over Sableflare's Rosewood Shirasaya GKT from Hume F to Mithra...so, could anyone offer some advice?
Or possibly option B) Porting it over for me along with possibly creating a nicer step by step guide (or quick youtube video I can study over and over while downing a cup of bowel-draining strong black coffee) in case I wanna subject myself to this torture again...
Or C) Reaching through the computer screen with a 12 gauge and putting me out of my misery...
Whichever is easiest to accomplish in a given amount of time and effort.

Last edited by Knyte; 07-07-2014 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:44 PM   #2
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Been wanting to try my hand at weapon porting...since ffxi dat modding/etc. has gone down the ol' porcelain throne. After several past failures of various weapons and various days/hours of wishing for a raven to pluck out my eyes, I actually got past figuring out how to navigate the goddamn schematic page (seriously, people who wrote those porting guides, haven't you ever taken a technical writing course? Or at least heard of K.I.S.S.? Toss some basic keyboard commands into those things for those of us who are completely vrs illiterate!)
lol sorry.... I will pass on offering any assistance. Figure it out like the rest of us did.
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:47 PM   #3
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Yep, I shall continue to do so in some way, shape, or form. By the way, how did you ever learn the intricacies of quantum physics without at least some kind of foundation?

P.S. - You forgot to put your shotgun through the screen and into my mouth. But with such a polite scathing reply, I'll forgive you.
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:54 PM   #4
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Grumpyrarab put together some very decent starting tutorials >>HERE<< that should give you a solid base from which to build upon. If nothing else, you should be able to learn how to tinker with all the necessary parts of the dat files and get a feel for basic things. Other helpful programs + guides over >>HERE<<
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:50 PM   #5
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Yep, I shall continue to do so in some way, shape, or form. By the way, how did you ever learn the intricacies of quantum physics without at least some kind of foundation?

P.S. - You forgot to put your shotgun through the screen and into my mouth. But with such a polite scathing reply, I'll forgive you.
You come off offending pretty much everyone who took the time to write those guides for people like you. I learned by taking the time to play with the programs. Sure I made an overwhelming amount of mistakes and had to start over on my mods more times then I can count.

Perhaps, you could try to be polite when asking for help.
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:48 AM   #6
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TL;DR version:
I did it!
Ahleah: thanks for the response, but grumpy's link is dead.
Alikona: I was, and still am, a retard with VRS. They didn't write it for people like me, who didn't have a clue as to how to even move around. They assumed you had at least a working knowledge of the program and went from there. While I was extremely frustrated at the time, I still stand by what I said. If it offends those who wrote the guides (if they still are around ff 11 and not in 14 or some other mmo)...oh well, learn what K.I.S.S. stands for.

Giant wall of text (read at own boredom...displea...erm, I mean pleasure):

I did it! Or at least it works in the model viewers...I'm waiting to test it in game until tomorrow. Otherwise I'll get less sleep on these hot nights than I already do thinking about what I did wrong.

Ahleah, I thank you for the links, but grumpyrarab's is dead. I suspect for some time now.
Actually ended up using an old guide garyk19 (good ol' gary) I had originally passed up as the pictures were deleted. Yes, I know mooshy's is all text as well and written in a happy and jolly form, but he assumed too much about a potential reader's beginning knowledge.

Alikona,
No...they wrote those guides for people "with at least some knowledge in how to work vrs, etc, etc"

I was (and still am mostly) a complete retard at it...remember, I said that various days/hours of trying to figure out how to even move in the damn thing, that is navigating around the schematic screen to even get to a black box...perhaps I should have added "over the course of several years", but hey..hindsight and all that.
Yes, I know its my fault for not asking for help, especially back when dat modding was in its late haydays. But after I got frustrated over it, I gave it up and moved on. Then I'd see another mod that I would have loved for my character, and seeing as how requests were being taken less and less, I'd peruse the guides and try again..and give up again over frustration and move on. So on and so forth.
I will admit I was extremely frustrated writing my initial post, but I still stand by it even in a calm state of mind. Even guides listing the title as "easy (weapon) porting 101!" failed to even answer basic questions like "how do you get the weights?".
True, they say how (select the black boxes, select the vertices, and click envelope open), but fail to mention you need to select each small black box separately and then do all the selecting of vertices and such.
Having taken a technical writing course in the past, which is essentially how to write manuals, it slightly annoys me when people make guides/manuals in which they write down the steps they do without regard as to who could be reading it. And with so few guides left around, that's even worse.They usually are just assuming that "oh, you're reading this, you must have some idea of what you're doing". That line of thought wouldn't pass muster in an automobile manufacturing plant, or a fire/emergency escape plan for a building (you're in this building, so you must know how to get out while in a state of sheer panic). Nor should it be ok on an online forum for a real or virtual hobby.
K.I.S.S. is such an essential acronym it should be branded into our DNA: Keep It Simple, and Stupid.

PS - The less polite form removes the "and"
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:26 AM   #7
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I had no issue understanding the guides as they were written when I started tinkering myself... And I used just the ones you mentioned, as I started when it was mostly dead too.

My biggest issues were when I assumed I could figure things out and didn't read things to help before hand... I'm stubborn like that.

I can't do like anything because I'm phone Internet only for the foreseeable future, but I really didn't have the trouble you did (excepting that I brought upon myself) so I'm sorry to hear that things that worked for me kept you lost for "years."

And kudos to you for figuring out you can't adjust weights well when there are multiple values applied across multiple vertex. Baby steps! :)
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:40 PM   #8
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Thanks, Kammi =)

Though baby steps, I think, is still too much credit for me...more like a slug who switched gears from slimy crawl to...less slimy, slightly faster crawl. Wasn't so much not understanding what the guide was telling me to do, the total concept of it, I got that easily; but the how was lacking, in my view, some essential steps.

The fresh hell of this now, to me anyway...all of the dats I've seen in the past that I would now have loved to port over for my char are pretty much gone, and because I didn't know how to port then I didn't download them...admired them and praised the maker, but no download. Talk about learning a skill a tad too late to get some real good use out of it...like learning how to sew only after your pants fall apart in a business meeting.
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:26 PM   #9
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I think the difficulties stem from the fact that neither the programs nor the users were professionals. There is a definite lack of ease and polish (and SENSE) to VRS. No doubt about it. But after you spend so much time immersed in something and discovering how to use it, and sometimes even finding uses it didn't even know it had (cough::mooshy::cough) you forget that the vast majority of the user base is still dazzled by the unknown and the complicated UI.

It's almost like Stockholm Syndrome.

Some parts of VRS that are mind numbingly tedious and difficult even for those who are familiar with it can be the most fun and the most rewarding. I enjoyed the wonky things most people broke making vrs mods (hq textures and such) but I still treat hex editing with an unreasonably mythical superstitious like fear.

People's brains just work differently and sometimes it makes sense because it's exactly how everyone else would do it, and sometimes it makes sense because no one in their right mind would do it that way. So when it's not making sense at all, very frustrating.

At the end of the day, I'd rather have a thousand people ask for help because they've tried and failed than one demanding that someone else do the work for them. So thanks for that :)

Mild edit: back when I had the luxury of being able to mod Ave help people, by far my favorite way was to do a Skype call, have them share their screen, and give verbal instruction with immediate feedback from me. This not only helped more than the guides because it wasn't just a flat words frame of reference, it also helped me a ton because there are just some processes that I don't have the written words to explain.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:25 AM   #10
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Sorry. It greatly annoys me when people sit there and nit pick things like this. Honestly its a hobby. We do it because we enjoy it... not because we are getting paid to do it. I'm sorry if its not perfect and not the 50 page manual you need that tells you exactly how to do everything. Most of us do not have that much time on our hands.

I made you a video walking you through how to port this. I just need to upload it. I will try to do so later today.
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:06 PM   #11
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See if this works... might need to save it. I couldn't get it to play in my browser after uploading it o.O If it doesn't work I will reupload it.

http://users.neko-sentai.com/alikona...pon%20Port.avi

*WARNING*
It's not professional
I made mistakes
There are loud noises at times
o.O there are naked mithras - lol sorry

You can't exactly see the text and what not.. if you are unsure of some stuff I did and I didn't explain it well enough just ask.
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:48 AM   #12
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...we need a multi-thanks button.../cough

Ali! If I could, I'd give you a rib-crushing hug...
It didn't need to be professional at all, and you did it very satisfactory...and at 16 minutes long, it was longer than I expected but I'm glad for it. The text was a bit blurry, but I knew what you were doing. I didn't reapply the textures at the end, I kind of like it being a little dark as my mithra has her armor swapped around to look very ninja-esque. However, I thought I would have had to go into graphics converter and do all that stuff...instead of just renaming the files. I suppose it could be done that way too, right?, but your way was better lol.

One thing I had learned from a seperate text guide was some hot keys...like either pressing/holding the space bar while in the schematic window lets you move around. And H and J activates single select and mutli-select, respectively.

I'm usually a very visual person, but sometimes just pictures are not enough. Gotta see it in action to get a good grip.

Is there any chance we could get this into the guide section? And stickied?

Again, thanks so much!
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:12 PM   #13
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=3 Np.. once you figure out how to do it , weapon porting is one of the easiest/fastest mods to do. It probably takes around 5mins if you aren't taking your time through every little step.

There are several ways you can go around fixing the textures after you export from VRS. You could use Graphics converter (or photoshop with the dds plugin), open the original texture and then save over the corrupted texture then import back into MV. There is another way that reduces some steps but its another program to download :). If you get a hold of Changetext all you need to do with that one is open up your ported weapon dat file and import your original dds textures then hit ok.

For they keyboard shortcuts - If you go to the Visible drop down menu and at the very bottom click Options then Key Layout tab you will be able to see all the keyboard shortcuts and change them if you'd like.

I can create a new thread in the Tutorial Section for video guides, I did another the other day for someone as well. Maybe we could get Kami to make a few once she has decent internet :) shes a lot better at using VRS then I am, especially when it comes to changing weights.
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:17 PM   #14
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Would have made a new topic...I guess I should have, but since this is already here why not use it.

Yeah weapon porting is simple...now lol. Seeing as how I haven't gotten any bites on finding the lowtech sam relic version for mithra (could have sworn it exists but now has most likely been lost in the ether for all time), I will prolly graduate to porting it over to mithra (the butter-knife for the wrist has been sterilized and set aside within easy reach...).

But! While contemplating some recolor jobs for that rosewood shirasaya that Sableflare made; already did 4 combinations of original and vrs darkened versions (simply labeled rosewood darkened grip/darkened blade and light grip/polished blade) I had an idea to modify the straight edge masamune that dracovivi had ported over to mithra into a shorter version to reflect the good ol' 80's movie-style Ninjato sword...and after monkeying around in VRS I came to the conclusion that modifying vertices (deleting, moving, changing angles) like that is either a colossal thumbtack in the arse in VRS...or it's time to switch to metrosqia (sp?).

Am I right? If so, what kind of pain am I looking at here? lol

edit 1: WAIT! I think I got it! But still gonna leave this wall o text here...hmm, should I release them? haha

edit 2: QUESTION! Is it possible to do a self-port bastardized maneuver to override a motion while keeping the original mod? What I'm thinking is using VRS to copy over my ninjato mod to the Hyoukai-no-Toujin file, in effect keeping the gsword draw, sheath, and idle motions but still have it be the ninjato gkt.

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Old 07-07-2014, 07:24 PM   #15
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Would have made a new topic...I guess I should have, but since this is already here why not use it.

Yeah weapon porting is simple...now lol. Seeing as how I haven't gotten any bites on finding the lowtech sam relic version for mithra (could have sworn it exists but now has most likely been lost in the ether for all time), I will prolly graduate to porting it over to mithra (the butter-knife for the wrist has been sterilized and set aside within easy reach...).
That's a WHOLE new ball park... one I'm not very good at. Kami is amazing at porting armor from race to race like that.

Also.. do you have the Artifact Mithra Lowtech set for SAM? If so that's just a texture swap to make it the relic version.

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I had an idea to modify the straight edge masamune that dracovivi had ported over to mithra into a shorter version to reflect the good ol' 80's movie-style Ninjato sword...and after monkeying around in VRS I came to the conclusion that modifying vertices (deleting, moving, changing angles) like that is either a colossal thumbtack in the arse in VRS...or it's time to switch to metrosqia (sp?).
Meta is great at moving and reshaping gear. And I think its alot easier to learn how to use on your own then VRS. Just don't delete anything or you model will implode when you try to import it back into MV. You can only add/delete things in VRS.

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edit 2: QUESTION! Is it possible to do a self-port bastardized maneuver to override a motion while keeping the original mod? What I'm thinking is using VRS to copy over my ninjato mod to the Hyoukai-no-Toujin file, in effect keeping the gsword draw, sheath, and idle motions but still have it be the ninjato gkt.
Maybe its been a long day at work but I'm a bit confused lol. You want to swap a great katana mod to be used like a great sword? If so that is simple enough. Just do like you were porting the weapon to another race except you load a greatsword dat and find the weights for that.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:10 PM   #16
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Texture swap? You mean like when finishing up a weapon port to correct for vrs discoloring?
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:19 PM   #17
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Texture swap? You mean like when finishing up a weapon port to correct for vrs discoloring?
Yeah :) the artifact and relic armors are the same shape, just recolors for the most part. Swapping the textures like I showed in the vid to get rid of vrs green would work.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:45 PM   #18
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It works! Ha ha!

tried the same tactic for the pants...and erm...ruh roh...guessing I gotta do some vertices moving in VRS to get rid of the skin? Everything else seems ok tho
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:07 AM   #19
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It works! Ha ha!

tried the same tactic for the pants...and erm...ruh roh...guessing I gotta do some vertices moving in VRS to get rid of the skin? Everything else seems ok tho
Hmmm. Are those SEs pants? They don't really look like lowtechs. Post that file and I will show you how to manipulate the UV maps.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:01 PM   #20
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Problem solved...I had originally tried to swap the texture over to a different mod I was using (Mithra_Ayame based off of the first Tenchu game). Guess the two don't like each other. Did the swap onto the regular relic pants and it came out fine.
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