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Old 07-11-2014, 01:56 PM   #1
Knyte
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Default Need some advice (VRS weapon modding)

Ok, new topic as I have a small clue as to what I'm doing now...
So after I made that ninja sword, I got the idea to try to make a version of the Tonbogiri, one of the 3 legendary spears of japan.

But...well I got sidetracked by thinking of another spear from that set, called the Otegine;
pic: Otegine

So I got the idea to use the Tomoe polearm as a base, and then attach a longsword blade to the end...so I went about the whole deal, copy/pasta, stretching, weight adjustments, etc...and bob's your uncle, fanny's your aunt...I ended up with Pic #1...I don't how the longsword blade got that distorted as in VRS its just the right length (Pic #2)
I've tried several re-tries and still wind up with the same thing. What do I do now? /pout

This kind of puts a hamper on me trying to make the Tonbogiri as it's essentially the same process, but with different items
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:55 PM   #2
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First I think your weights are off. My comp sort of took a derp and I am in the middle of doing a clean install so I can't check it for you for a few days. if you get stuck and want to wait you can upload it and I will check it as soon as I'm up and runing.

I *think* your problem is you combined different types of weapon models and some where in there you forgot to change the weights.

It's possible that when you were stretching and reshaping you went a little too much and that's why it appears so big. Import another great katana and use it's size as a reference. Resizing in vrs is a bitch... If you get the weights figured out you could open the model in meta and use that. If I remember correctly a vid I posted awhile ago shows you how to open up reference models in meta... Let me find the link for you.

http://users.neko-sentai.com/alikona...s/Video%20Tut/

Go here.... It's the Ohhi one. It's not EXACTLY what you are looking for but it will show you how to use meta a bit.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:26 PM   #3
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I *did* combine two weapon models. It's a polearm mod, so I used the Tomoe polearm for the shaft, and the "unknown sword" (according to model viewer) for the blade. Pic #1 is with the weights set right, somehow.

Just tried again, weights done right, but no stretching...and it works. /facepalm
How important is it in VRS to do certain steps in sequence? Cause I remember doing stretching and moving, and all that in different orders with each try.

This time I did everything after copying the blade over to the polearm schematic and setting the weights first.

All in all, a decent likeness if I say so myself
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Old 07-12-2014, 09:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knyte View Post
How important is it in VRS to do certain steps in sequence? Cause I remember doing stretching and moving, and all that in different orders with each try.

This time I did everything after copying the blade over to the polearm schematic and setting the weights first.

All in all, a decent likeness if I say so myself
Hmmm I guess I've never thought of that. I always do my moving/reshaping in Meta so I do it after changing the weights, etc. It really shouldn't matter... but VRS is a strange beast. lol Glad you got it working
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:30 PM   #5
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Ok...had an idea for a H2H weapon, but I wonder if it could work.

Would it be possible to graft a modified H2H weapon to the feet to use during kick attacks? But not as a boot, I mean as part of the weapon itself. Equip the weapon, it shows up on both hands and feet, but the feet parts only move when walking, running, or a kick animation occurs?

I know I would have to play around with positioning and all that, but would it just require change the skeleton weight of the weapons on the feet to that of the feet skeleton once you have it attached?

I have a few other ports/recolors/create projects on my list, but this idea just occurred to me so thought it might be best to get some input/insight on it asap.

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Old 07-15-2014, 01:31 AM   #6
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You can add other things onto weapon or armor mods that will only appear when the swapped mod is equipped regardless of the location or weights relevance to the swapped item. (For instance my Lilith wings, or sword mods with sheaths)

But yes you'd need to make sure it is weighted correctly to where and what you want it to be; without altering the movement (or possibly tweaking the weights enough but I wouldn't suggest that, so that it rested inside the foot while stationary) it's probably going to be visible the whole time.

Yay on you for creativity :)
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:46 PM   #7
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Hmmm...wait, why is tweaking the weights not suggestable? All you really have to do is make sure all the values equal 1...don't you?
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:28 PM   #8
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Hmmm...wait, why is tweaking the weights not suggestable? All you really have to do is make sure all the values equal 1...don't you?
Aye just weight the foot weapons as you would a new shoe and you should be golden.

As for the earlier issue I kinda remember there being some weird issue where if you moved things in VRS it would attempt to fix the weights for you based on where the model is in correlation to the skeleton?

I always found it easiest to just space pieces out in the middle of nowhere, weight them there, then do the positioning and creating in Meta. Just drag out useless verticies to the side, then go back in VRS and delete, merge, etc.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:26 PM   #9
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Aye just weight the foot weapons as you would a new shoe and you should be golden.
Erm...haven't tried armor porting yet. As of now my modding experience only goes as far as recolors and weapon porting/creating. Was going to after I tried the H2H idea...but I guess I should do the armor porting first, eh? hehe
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:20 AM   #10
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Erm...haven't tried armor porting yet. As of now my modding experience only goes as far as recolors and weapon porting/creating. Was going to after I tried the H2H idea...but I guess I should do the armor porting first, eh? hehe
Weyll the foot has like 2 or 3 weights so if you're creating for instance some spiked ice climbing attachments for the shoe you'd need to make sure to weight it just as the shoe is weighted (which can be referenced just by opening up a shoe and checking all the weights)

If you're gonna create something like a shoe toe cap with spikes on it or something that would be easy since you'd just have to set 1 weight!
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:42 AM   #11
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I'm deciding between two ideas, with the focus on PUP...since in the in game lore, they are described as utilizing flexible movements.
One is a pair/set of spikes/claws that extend out from the middle of the foot, with the curve of the AF/Relic boot going up between them. I can kind of see this as fitting the PUP H2H lore. Also possibly add a blade that goes from ankle to mid-calf that follows the back of the leg.

The other is a bladed shinguard from ankle to mid-calf/just below the knee, with a band that wraps around the ankle to serve as an "anchor" point...which now that I think about it fits a MNK H2H style more.

...now that I'm thinking about it more, I could fashion the foot weapon using some RL martial arts as inspiration...off to re-watch Fight Quest/Human Weapon!

PS: Yeah, I think this project is definately gonna have to go last after another porting project, and a mask creation....ooh boy
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:55 AM   #12
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I would recommend not alerting the weights because weighting off anything that would be far enough away to cause enough motion to make it visible in some instances but hidden in the rest would likely cause some weird things to happen in other motions.

Such as the boob bounce in mithra leading to major droopboobitis.

If you had the patience to figure out something that worked to your satisfaction, more power to you! But seeing that you've had difficulties with vrs already, and skeletal weights is one of the higher causes of self inflicted eye scratches in regards to vrs, I'd not recommend it.

This coming from a girl who has spent hours and hours weighting hair for mithra and hume, and has three custom faces with complete eye/mouth weighting done from zero... I like it and I still don't recommend it lol.

Also - it isn't "just = 1;" you can only have the weight spilt between two skeletons, or else you get some fun explosive results similar to deleting vertex in meta. It's more recoverable than the meta blowup though.

I had some real fun with that some time ago when adding polygons for a friend, because vrs averages the points on the ends of the line when you add another point.

I only scratched out my eyes a little bit that day, recovery was not too bad. ;)
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:20 PM   #13
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Yeah...think I ran into that while porting over an ANBU armor set...feet and hands were simple enough. Legs and body I had to do multiple recoveries/iterations to get it right...at one point my mithra's elbows and wrists looked like someone stretched out bugs bunny and he forgot how to use cartoon physics to bring them back to normal.

That armor porting project was rough...took anywhere from 30 min to an hour per piece.

Gonna take a break till the weekend, when I'm gonna attempt to try to make a kitsune mask:
http://33.media.tumblr.com/79524ba8f...kx6oo8_400.jpg

Attempted a rough draft last night in vrs, using the eye mask from PUP Empy Head. Came out ok, except I couldn't figure out how to add a vertex (vertices) and then connect it to the other vertices to cover the mouth/chin. I really like the PUP Empy mask textures tho...Found an old elvaan ANBU set that has a mask with it. So will try to port it over and tweak it a bit...

I'm very tempted to just stick with recoloring, texture swaps, and porting/creating weapons; and ignore armor with the exception of some minor tweaks like taking off flaps/shoulder pads...it just wears me out mentally.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:43 AM   #14
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I totally get that.

If I wasn't so damned stubborn I wouldn't do custom mesh myself. But I think I've done okay with what I've put in and gotten out of it :)

Edit: durned I miss being able to mod /sigh
I'd totally forgotten how super cute my blm shoes were ._.

I USED TO BE SOMEONE!!! lol.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:25 PM   #15
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All this recent chat and shares in FFXI modding inspired me to take up my own creation, starting with a simple recolor! Alas.....even when using my OWN guide....I kept getting errors about my dat file becoming corrupted. LOL!
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:58 PM   #16
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Oof...ok, I give up on custom mesh for now. I wish I had saved that rough draft of the mask I had, but hindsight and all that.

If anyone wants to attempt it, I'll make a formal post in the Request section. Hell, I'll do the recoloring and vertex modding so there is only the mask to stretch around.

Project name: Kitsune Mask
Inspirations attached
Desired texture(s): Puppetmaster Empyrean head, eye mask only with the shaded eye holes intact.
Desired colors: Either white and red accents, or black and blue accents.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knyte View Post
Oof...ok, I give up on custom mesh for now. I wish I had saved that rough draft of the mask I had, but hindsight and all that.

If anyone wants to attempt it, I'll make a formal post in the Request section. Hell, I'll do the recoloring and vertex modding so there is only the mask to stretch around.

Project name: Kitsune Mask
Inspirations attached
Desired texture(s): Puppetmaster Empyrean head, eye mask only with the shaded eye holes intact.
Desired colors: Either white and red accents, or black and blue accents.
Would you want the muzzle to protrude like the 2nd pic or more of a flat mask like the first? For the most part masks/headgear are single weights. The blue mask would be fairly simple to create I think. The 2nd one would require more shaping.

When I wanted to create new armor or mesh I would go through all of MV and look to see of there was something similar to what I needed... Something I could hack up and combined to make it work instead of flat out creating new mesh. Totally new mesh can have some weird display issues in MV/av and the way the dynamic lighting hits it will be incorrect unless you adjust that to.

I think if I was going to attempt the white mask I would check to see if there are any headpieces ingame with somewhat similar mesh or even mobs mesh that's close. It's been awhile since I've looked at the models but maybe there is a wolf/dog/cat? Another thing that might work is to take an actual face dat and hack that up... Remove the eyes/mouth, close those gaps, using meta reshape the mesh on the nose/mouth to resemble a muzzle, move all the mesh forward slightly do it doesn't clip with the face then go into vrs and add ears, adjust the weights, add the texture then go into meta and adjust the uv map.

O.o
Maybe I'm just crazy lol

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Old 07-24-2014, 01:08 AM   #18
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Would you want the muzzle to protrude like the 2nd pic or more of a flat mask like the first? For the most part masks/headgear are single weights. The blue mask would be fairly simple to create I think. The 2nd one would require more shaping.
Preferably with a protruding muzzle...but you know what? If you make a flat mask, you (or I) can prolly go back into it with VRS and protrude the muzzle.

I had found a mask for elvaan-M that I tried to port to mithra, but it became all weird and triangular afterwards. I'll pop the original dat and the pic into attachments in case you can/want to use it as a base.

I had gotten so close to it when I tried it at first with the empy eye mask, but I just couldn't figure out how to join the vertices together below the nose...and now you got my tired mind thinking about stuff again, Ali...I need teh sleeps

Imma have to grab the ye olde sleeping pill...le mallet. Two whacks and I'll see ya in the morning. Good night and appreciate the help/advice

Edit: Sneaky edits, Ali! Yeah, that's what I did when I tried it again this time. Only things I found that came close is the moogle mask and cait sith's face. There maybe others, but I was...am...was too tired to really focus on details. I just scanned models in AV looking for a quick base. But just now Fenrir's face popped in my mind. Could serve as a base couldn't it? Or maybe even carby's? ...sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepyyyyyyyyyyyyy
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:58 AM   #19
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It actually would be pretty simple to convert an NPC dat to a head mod. Just delete all the vertex you don't need and weight it to the main face weight. You might have a bit of a butt altering the texture depending on the one you'd choose to go with. And be aware of the hair sticking through the mask; if you had something that covered the rest of the head you could utilize the priorities but this appears to be just over the face with an open top/back?

Source: because I said so. Also because I've done it a few times.
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:28 PM   #20
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Yeah, that is what it is. Like a Carnivale/Masquerade/Marti Gras mask, it just covers the face only, not the entire head.
There is an actual Moogle Mask for players now...tho its pretty much a balloon. Deleting the vertices was easy, but reshaping the mesh...that was/is a cold, hard bee-yatch.
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