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Old 07-14-2007, 10:40 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Corrderio
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Originally Posted by gengenskitty
gil sellers are like drug dealers, they screw up the economy, and its a violation of the contract you signed with SE on account registration, if you read threw it it says your not authorized to sell ANYTHING from FFxi or pol, this includes gil, you may think you own ur char, but se only lets you have the privilege of having it, and if you sell the gil for profit thats you selling digital property that belongs to SE and your violating the contract, and that can include fines of up to $500k irl and/or 10 years in prison for digital theft :roll: and if you buy it your just as guilty of stealing from SE as the seller, much like a drug dealer and buyer, both are committing a crime
I agree 100% and what I don't understand is why it's not against the law.

If you think about it SE owns your character, your inventory, and your gil. So by buying and selling gil you're marketing SE's property, which in reality is against the law, however trying to pin down laws over the internet is very hard.
its hard to find the exact person over the internet but as a result for the crime + the hassle of finding you, the punishment is more severe >.> if you copy right a program illegally and resell it, that can cost you up to $50k~ were a somthing like a little hacking can cost around $10-15k, most vehicle fines i think max at 10k in most states just to give you an idea :roll: and i think marketing game data is againest the law since your profitting off selling a corporations data, just most corps dont bother or dont hear about it
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:08 AM   #22
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...every time u even think about being involved in RMT in anyway, some otaku masturbates to ur anime/game/hentai wife. or ur sig or avatar. or ur name.
I don't think any anime/game/hentai girl is my wife or friend or RL so DRop it!
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:08 PM   #23
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the problem with making your own money nowadays is that there are many more players than what there used to be a few years ago. with more people, there are more farmers.
lets use this example- a person crafts one stack of sole sushi and sells it on the ah, theres a small profit because its a consumable good. a person crafts a scorpion harness. that harness is used, sold, bought, sold - it never goes away unless some one destroys it, or the account owning it is gone. for example, i think it was 3 years ago, on the garuda server scorpion harness peaked at 18 million gil - thats a hell of a lot for any one able to craft it.
now they sell for 300-500k theres just double the amount of crafters. people learn that there isnt much in NQ crafting, so they all shift to crafting consumables, now the market is flooded with people selling items via alchemy, cooking, and so on. people will buy em cuz ppl need em. but more people making means less gil. so it makes it very difficult to still earn your own money through crafting.

Farming- rmt are always out farming items to make the consumables, make high end items that are still worth some value, also camping NM's with money drops. another thing that makes it difficult for players to earn thier own money.

many people are blaming the RMT for changing economy, but they are only a small portion of it. im sorr y that if you used to be 1 of only 2 people able to craft an item and 10 more just showed up and are cramping your sales, driving your prices down. its the way the world works. the rmt are not 100% at fualt. population, and availability of items, and goods needed to make money is whats at fualt. think about it - when you could ONLY get a V claw from Serket, how many scorp harness's did u see being made daily? not alot now that u can get that same item from ksnm gods, other NM's and so on.

buying gil is just one way for players who cannot compete, are too lazy, or dont have time and want to enjoy the game. but until SE makes it OK and officail, heck, i mean set up an ingame bank or something that charges your account, it will always be veiwed as bad, or cheating. Some Rmt are awsome, are nice, and will do alot for u just so u dont hate them, and others are total dicks asking to be banned. but at the end of the day
"your damned if ya do, and your damned if ya dont"
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:50 AM   #24
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theres a fundamanetal problem with FFXI. not everyone can be a fighter and a merchant. ffxi asks a lot of people that want be successful both with equipment and financially. ive heard of people farming for a month to afford a haubergon or some o kotes. fuck that. i dont come home from work to work some more. im fine now because i quit the game when a million gil wasnt worth shit,then when i came back it was worth something and ive been living off it. i havent bought gil in a longass time but i did a long time ago when my monk was about lvl 55 to help me afford 2 snipers rings. to give you an idea how long ago that was,it was back when snipers were 300k a piece.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:18 AM   #25
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Sometimes RMT can even drive down the prices of items that they can get tons of if they have lots of people farming for them. This kills profit for any legit player that farms them who gets way less because they only use one character.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:21 AM   #26
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The truth is:

Gil buying is nothing bad, however, there are TOO many idiots that buy gil.

Buying Gil would be fine IF idiots didn't toss around their bought gil thus buying up prices, for instance:

"Lawl I'll buy 20 mil gil..hmm scorpion harness for 300k? Let me raise the price by buying it for 4.4 million LULZ!!!!11"

Seriously, buying gil is fine, I don't do it, but indeed the elitists bastards force people to buy gil, like they have in the past, why?

"You suck if you don't have soandso gearl"

and face it, farming is hard for a lot of jobs, and even harder for people who don't play FFXI 24/7, and don't say this is an excuse, only elitists and hardcore gamers will say that's than excuse.

Gil sellers aren't bad either, just gil farmers, I feel bad because gil farming and selling is automatically linked to the chinese, when it's been PROVEN that there are more American Assholes selling gil than Chinese, and there's even more Japanese gil sellers than chinese.

So really, gil buying is actually fine, because some people that buy gil, who aren't complete morons, are someone you wouldn't expect to buy gil, if RMT was bad, everyone should stop playing FFXI...

why?

You're paying REAL MONEY to play a VIRTUAL GAME, which is the SAME as paying REAL MONEY to GET VIRTUAL CURRENCY.

Some MMORPGs even embrace RMT, like a lot of SoE games, and Sword of the New World, so RMT only has a bad "taste" because of the tactics farmers use, otherwise, RMT is just part of MMORPG Life, and if people buy gil, they buy gil, hell, even gil sellers/farmer EVENS out the economy, just idiotic assholes don't like the prices dropping so they drive them back up, and idiotic gil buyers tend to over spend on items because they can, which is why gil buyers have a bad rep.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:30 PM   #27
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Thats right but sometimes its not the idiots ho jack up the price but the elitist themselves jacking the prices to keep the poor honest players in ever buying gil which causes the cycle to continue and make pipl be tempted to buy gil.

If there was no RMT all thats left would be the elitist in the game who wont be able to make fun of new pipl will now go and make fun of other elitist. I really think if there weren't any gil sellers the game would have a very low population and SE will have to increase the monthly fee because they aren't making any profit and if more pipl quit because of that the servers would eventually just shut down.

Whine and argue about it if its a good thing or a bad thing but just like greed and violence and war in our world they are here to stay. No matter how much pipl believe these things will be gone when done with the right action there will always be someone to oppose those ideas. Only real way to make unity is to reborn the world and wipe out everyone and their ideals and replace them with one group that thinks in one thought, now how boring is that?
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raz2k1
The truth is:

Gil buying is nothing bad, however, there are TOO many idiots that buy gil.

Buying Gil would be fine IF idiots didn't toss around their bought gil thus buying up prices, for instance:

"Lawl I'll buy 20 mil gil..hmm scorpion harness for 300k? Let me raise the price by buying it for 4.4 million LULZ!!!!11"

Seriously, buying gil is fine, I don't do it, but indeed the elitists bastards force people to buy gil, like they have in the past, why?

"You suck if you don't have soandso gearl"

and face it, farming is hard for a lot of jobs, and even harder for people who don't play FFXI 24/7, and don't say this is an excuse, only elitists and hardcore gamers will say that's than excuse.

Gil sellers aren't bad either, just gil farmers, I feel bad because gil farming and selling is automatically linked to the chinese, when it's been PROVEN that there are more American Assholes selling gil than Chinese, and there's even more Japanese gil sellers than chinese.

So really, gil buying is actually fine, because some people that buy gil, who aren't complete morons, are someone you wouldn't expect to buy gil, if RMT was bad, everyone should stop playing FFXI...

why?

You're paying REAL MONEY to play a VIRTUAL GAME, which is the SAME as paying REAL MONEY to GET VIRTUAL CURRENCY.

Some MMORPGs even embrace RMT, like a lot of SoE games, and Sword of the New World, so RMT only has a bad "taste" because of the tactics farmers use, otherwise, RMT is just part of MMORPG Life, and if people buy gil, they buy gil, hell, even gil sellers/farmer EVENS out the economy, just idiotic assholes don't like the prices dropping so they drive them back up, and idiotic gil buyers tend to over spend on items because they can, which is why gil buyers have a bad rep.
But you nor the seller owns the account OR the currency so your selling someone elses intellectual property and thats listed as virtual theft and is a crime by law, and before someone says "they pay money for it so its they're" they dont, the SE user agreement contract you SHOULD have read stats your paying for the privilege to play, not the right, and if you need money that bad, /thf and kill orcs and gobbys, 5 kills = 100~ not the best source of income but at least is stable. (worlds biggest run on sentence whoo!)
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:31 PM   #29
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Oh god, not the "TEH MEAN ELITISTS ARE MAKING ME BUY GIL" argument again... go spew that crap on 'Zam. No one is realistically making absurd demands. Anyone can afford the basics they need to level up any job if they just spend a bit of their time putting effort it. It's not elitist to expect you to have ACC rings, Haubergeons, etc. They're not that damn expensive and you do not need to finance China's economy to obtain them.

There are two reason gilbuying is bad:

1. You're providing demand for gilsellers. You're giving money to people who exist only to annoy real players. They bot the hell out of lesser NMs and in some cases make crafting nearly impossible.

2. You're getting things you don't deserve and didn't earn. Face it: if you're not willing to put the time in to legitimately earn your gear, you do not deserve it. Look at Unctgtg on Ragnarok for example: bought a relic scythe through IGE but he still sucks so bad at his job that he gives all DRKs a bad name.
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:04 PM   #30
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lol he would still suck ass at drk if got in an ls that arent gilsellers but bots nms too. There are just pipl who have good connections and get great gear and still suck so much ass an infant can pwn them in skills.

Its still a valid argument that pipl do things through peer pressure and saying thats not one of the reasons is just being stubborn and sticking to hopes that their reason is the only reason pipl do these things. Among these groups there is always an individual who are either brain washed pushed down pressured and just think these things are the way it naturally is.

I'm not saying its just the elitist fault I'm saying its part of a cycle that will never end no mater how much u want it to change. Sadly things like that wont change it will just take a different form.
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Old 07-16-2007, 03:05 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raz2k1
The truth is:

Gil buying is nothing bad, however, there are TOO many idiots that buy gil.

Buying Gil would be fine IF idiots didn't toss around their bought gil thus buying up prices, for instance:

"Lawl I'll buy 20 mil gil..hmm scorpion harness for 300k? Let me raise the price by buying it for 4.4 million LULZ!!!!11"

Seriously, buying gil is fine, I don't do it, but indeed the elitists bastards force people to buy gil, like they have in the past, why?

"You suck if you don't have soandso gearl"

and face it, farming is hard for a lot of jobs, and even harder for people who don't play FFXI 24/7, and don't say this is an excuse, only elitists and hardcore gamers will say that's than excuse.

Gil sellers aren't bad either, just gil farmers, I feel bad because gil farming and selling is automatically linked to the chinese, when it's been PROVEN that there are more American Assholes selling gil than Chinese, and there's even more Japanese gil sellers than chinese.

So really, gil buying is actually fine, because some people that buy gil, who aren't complete morons, are someone you wouldn't expect to buy gil, if RMT was bad, everyone should stop playing FFXI...

why?

You're paying REAL MONEY to play a VIRTUAL GAME, which is the SAME as paying REAL MONEY to GET VIRTUAL CURRENCY.

Some MMORPGs even embrace RMT, like a lot of SoE games, and Sword of the New World, so RMT only has a bad "taste" because of the tactics farmers use, otherwise, RMT is just part of MMORPG Life, and if people buy gil, they buy gil, hell, even gil sellers/farmer EVENS out the economy, just idiotic assholes don't like the prices dropping so they drive them back up, and idiotic gil buyers tend to over spend on items because they can, which is why gil buyers have a bad rep.
There's a problem with the MMOs that embrace RMT. If there are people who have way too much time to farm gil, then there are people who have way too much money to spend on gil. Say you really want those two sniper rings (700k each? that's highway robbery!). So you farm while lfp, and in about a month you can afford both. You'd probably be very proud that you were dedicated enough to actually get the gil for them, and you really feel like you earned it. Then you meet a character who was your lvl when you started farming, and he's as broke as you were. You give him farming advice (lolsilkthreads), and he blows you off and buys some gil and gets two sniper+1s with practically no effort whatsoever. I dunno about you, but i'd feel pretty let down, and pissed.

Now, let's say SE suddenly decides to allow RMTing, and even offers to sell gil to players. Now those players who have enough money irl will buy lots and lots of gil to avoid farming. Suddenly there's an extra dozen billion gil on your server. Synthers will immediately spot this chance, and prices will naturally skyrocket. Items that were once worth 100k are now worth over 1m. But this is okay, because everyone is buying gil, right? Wrong. What about all the players who can't afford to buy gil? They still need to work for their gil. Say all this happened when you first started farming for the Sniper Rings. They're no longer 700k, but 2.1m. Sure, the price of the silk threads you're farming have gone up from 15k to 30k, but it's not nearly enough to make up for the loss.

When an overabundance of gil is introduced into the economy, prices for everything go up, but they don't all go up by the same amount, or by the same percent. Those who are stuck farming or taxing for gil get the shaft, while those who buy gil are living the high life.

I've seen this happen too. I wish i was making up this scenario, but i went through it in during the xmas of '05 (when there was a huuuuuge influx of gilbuyers for the holiday deals). Sad part? i no longer have the snipers i farmed so hard for. ; ;
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:31 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newb_Dragoon
Quote:
Originally Posted by raz2k1
The truth is:

Gil buying is nothing bad, however, there are TOO many idiots that buy gil.

Buying Gil would be fine IF idiots didn't toss around their bought gil thus buying up prices, for instance:

"Lawl I'll buy 20 mil gil..hmm scorpion harness for 300k? Let me raise the price by buying it for 4.4 million LULZ!!!!11"

Seriously, buying gil is fine, I don't do it, but indeed the elitists bastards force people to buy gil, like they have in the past, why?

"You suck if you don't have soandso gearl"

and face it, farming is hard for a lot of jobs, and even harder for people who don't play FFXI 24/7, and don't say this is an excuse, only elitists and hardcore gamers will say that's than excuse.

Gil sellers aren't bad either, just gil farmers, I feel bad because gil farming and selling is automatically linked to the chinese, when it's been PROVEN that there are more American Assholes selling gil than Chinese, and there's even more Japanese gil sellers than chinese.

So really, gil buying is actually fine, because some people that buy gil, who aren't complete morons, are someone you wouldn't expect to buy gil, if RMT was bad, everyone should stop playing FFXI...

why?

You're paying REAL MONEY to play a VIRTUAL GAME, which is the SAME as paying REAL MONEY to GET VIRTUAL CURRENCY.

Some MMORPGs even embrace RMT, like a lot of SoE games, and Sword of the New World, so RMT only has a bad "taste" because of the tactics farmers use, otherwise, RMT is just part of MMORPG Life, and if people buy gil, they buy gil, hell, even gil sellers/farmer EVENS out the economy, just idiotic assholes don't like the prices dropping so they drive them back up, and idiotic gil buyers tend to over spend on items because they can, which is why gil buyers have a bad rep.
There's a problem with the MMOs that embrace RMT. If there are people who have way too much time to farm gil, then there are people who have way too much money to spend on gil. Say you really want those two sniper rings (700k each? that's highway robbery!). So you farm while lfp, and in about a month you can afford both. You'd probably be very proud that you were dedicated enough to actually get the gil for them, and you really feel like you earned it. Then you meet a character who was your lvl when you started farming, and he's as broke as you were. You give him farming advice (lolsilkthreads), and he blows you off and buys some gil and gets two sniper+1s with practically no effort whatsoever. I dunno about you, but i'd feel pretty let down, and pissed.

Now, let's say SE suddenly decides to allow RMTing, and even offers to sell gil to players. Now those players who have enough money irl will buy lots and lots of gil to avoid farming. Suddenly there's an extra dozen billion gil on your server. Synthers will immediately spot this chance, and prices will naturally skyrocket. Items that were once worth 100k are now worth over 1m. But this is okay, because everyone is buying gil, right? Wrong. What about all the players who can't afford to buy gil? They still need to work for their gil. Say all this happened when you first started farming for the Sniper Rings. They're no longer 700k, but 2.1m. Sure, the price of the silk threads you're farming have gone up from 15k to 30k, but it's not nearly enough to make up for the loss.

When an overabundance of gil is introduced into the economy, prices for everything go up, but they don't all go up by the same amount, or by the same percent. Those who are stuck farming or taxing for gil get the shaft, while those who buy gil are living the high life.

I've seen this happen too. I wish i was making up this scenario, but i went through it in during the xmas of '05 (when there was a huuuuuge influx of gilbuyers for the holiday deals). Sad part? i no longer have the snipers i farmed so hard for. ; ;
and you cant forget that its illegal and is a crime to buy gil >.> doesnt matter what it does to the economy or how much you need it, its buying and selling corporate data which is theft and is a big crime on the internet, but if you dont mind the prison time or losing everything you worked for, by all means :roll:
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:00 PM   #33
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Actually.... RMT isn't illegal, the Goverment has been stepping in on it though, but last I heard it was to place a tax on virtual goods and crap.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:11 AM   #34
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I'm sorry, but you're a toolbox if you buy gil. rmt wouldn't exist if people wouldn't buy gil. you may not think it affects you, but it does. gilbuyers only keep rmt companies in buisiness, and that means constant accounts camping ontop of your exp parties, rmt armies botting behemoth, full allys of craptastic blms camping moldy earring for days on end until they all have earrings, controlling sky, and even on some servers putting a tight grip on sea too. it isn't right for these fake-players to even have access to anything end game. when it comes down to it, gilbuyers are just the lazy fools unwilling to put time into making money legitimately. honestly, if you want to take the easy road and visit ige or something, ffxi isn't the game for you. quit ruining the game for the rest of us and go drink bleach in the corner or something. *sigh* this is turning into a rant post. lol. bottomline is rmt is trash, gilbuyers are fetid trash. ...vote chewbacca '08.

altho it's waaay too much fun to diaga their slept mobs when manaburning multiple despot PHs, then watch their tarus hit the floor XD
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:39 AM   #35
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I don't understand why it is so bad. Ruling out that they are getting paid for someone elses game yada yada I know all that. But Seriously...
Why are we ruling that out? Seriously.

"Where do babies come from? Ruling out that they are conceived in the woman's womb, an egg having been fertilized by male sperm, yada yada I know all that."

:roll:
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