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Old 08-08-2018, 08:05 AM   #1561
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do people actually like it like that?
It's good comedy, even if it is low brow.

Suzuya and Sin sack walking into a convenience store and stripping while Miku stands behind the counter, and you think things like "She's getting angry because Suzuya's not going to actually buy anything.", "Is this maritime crime?" and "Even if she had a security guard, could he take on Sin sack?"
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Old 08-09-2018, 01:12 PM   #1562
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I never heard of Ademar440. took a look. saw a patreon page. Am I missing something or are you not able to see what you're buying before you buy it?
Ademar has an iwara account and about half of the videos there have a free motion from the video you can download. I don't Patreon cause I'm too poor for that, even if I wasn't, it wouldn't be for that type of content anyways.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:59 PM   #1563
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There's a nekosentai discord? Where?
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:44 AM   #1564
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There's a nekosentai discord? Where?
http://forum.neko-sentai.com/showthread.php?t=14975


Currently there is no MMD section, as it doesn't seem to be something that would be much interest in for MMD stuff.
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:46 PM   #1565
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I've been trying to add Mikasa's top to J&J's edit with no success. Rather than try to move the mesh into place manually, I've been looking for a way to copy the locrotscale of the bones from the edit onto the original model, so I can copy over the bits I need without toying too much with mesh unnecessarily. Am I wasting my time and would I be better off doing her from scratch? I feel as though this is something that would be nice to know how to do, if it's at all possible so that's why I've spent so long trying to do it.

Edit: I also asked if they had an edited version with the clothing intact, but the response was that I needed practice.

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Old 08-13-2018, 11:46 AM   #1566
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older j&j's models were just heaswaps. I think his misaka used montys chirno body, id need to see it again. if true you could try salvaging outfits from that base.

>Am I wasting my time
unless someone is guiding you, wasting time is unavoidable.
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:49 PM   #1567
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older j&j's models were just heaswaps. I think his misaka used montys chirno body, id need to see it again. if true you could try salvaging outfits from that base.
This is Mikasa from Shingeki no violent titans, not Misaka the human pellet gun from Index. The original was by Kakomiki, and I've also already got his or her base.

I'm leaning towards not using J&J's edit at all and using Kakomiki's original model and base instead for this, but knowing the answer to my question would still be immensely helpful in that it would avert redundant mesh editing.

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Old 08-13-2018, 08:36 PM   #1568
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I'm leaning towards not using J&J's edit at all and using Kakomiki's original model and base instead for this, but knowing the answer to my question would still be immensely helpful in that it would avert redundant mesh editing.
Whenever possible, try to use the original mesh instead of the edit. Sometimes things have been messed with by the first editor that you can't even tell until it turns up later in the process. I've seen edits where random vertices in places like the tongue are inexplicably rotated on their normals 180 degrees so it looks like they have hand foot and mouth disease when they stick their tongue out because there's random bright spots.

Starting from the original is more work but it's the only way to guarantee you have total control of the result. Take this new body I'm currently working on; there's already a swimsuit and body by Aidahou that would have been 90% commonality with a Kurauchi body but in the end I elected to only use the rims and make the main swimsuit material by extrapolating the body mesh. That let me ensure there wouldn't be anything weird with the rigging or the normals and drastically reduced the amount of weight tweaking I had to do, which was still plenty. (And if I had it over I would have used Ademar440's fabric rims from his Izumi model instead, it's higher-poly and smoother.)

Another thing that can lessen workload is if you're making something with symmetrical parts, just make one side of it, use the mirror-image function to make the other when you're done, combine them into one model, and then join the vertices in the middle if necessary. That also preserves the UV mapping which makes it easier to make that symmetrical too.

I might be able to be able to help you better if I understood what "locrotscale" means. I'm guessing it's shorthand for the bone's position and rigging. There are some plug-ins for PMDE that let you copy rigging from the mesh of one model and apply it to other mesh with the same general x/y/z coordinates, but unless the second mesh matches the first closely (like tight-fitting clothes) you usually have to mess around with it afterwards to fine-tune.
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:49 AM   #1569
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I might be able to be able to help you better if I understood what "locrotscale" means. I'm guessing it's shorthand for the bone's position and rigging.
It's an abbreviation from Blender for location, rotation, and scale. I'm using it here to refer to the location, rotation and scale of bones of those two armatures (kakomeme's original model and base) with the same bones in different places with different scales and angles, but with otherwise the same bones - because they have the same base armature. I'm asking if it's possible to copy the base pose from one and slap it on the other. I've not been able to copy the pose from transform view (because, obviously, there's no pose to copy, even if the base poses are completely different. Thanks pmxeditor!), although I can move them into place manually very slowly and ineffectively. As far as I can tell, it can't be done in blender, either. It's easy to straight up copy the armature, or attach it to the other model, but it'll just be the base pose - it won't deform it, which is what I'm after.

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There are some plug-ins for PMDE that let you copy rigging from the mesh of one model and apply it to other mesh with the same general x/y/z coordinates, but unless the second mesh matches the first closely (like tight-fitting clothes) you usually have to mess around with it afterwards to fine-tune.
Weight transfer or just dumping a copy of the bones onto another model wouldn't be what I was looking for, unfortunately. Everything is already weighted properly, it's just in the wrong place, rotation, and scale with the wrong armature.

I also might just have to use a calculator (bad at maths!) and deduct the angle and location (I don't see scale anywhere stored as an absolute value, it always seems to be 1?) of the body armature from the clothes one, and then use the results to relax the clothes armature. But good lord, does that sound painful.

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Old 08-14-2018, 04:45 PM   #1570
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Weight transfer or just dumping a copy of the bones onto another model wouldn't be what I was looking for, unfortunately. Everything is already weighted properly, it's just in the wrong place, rotation, and scale with the wrong armature.

I also might just have to use a calculator (bad at maths!) and deduct the angle and location (I don't see scale anywhere stored as an absolute value, it always seems to be 1?) of the body armature from the clothes one, and then use the results to relax the clothes armature. But good lord, does that sound painful.
That sounds like you're trying to do something like take something from a T-pose model and set it into an A-pose model. I actually do use a calculator on a pretty regular basis for this kind of thing. Are you familiar with trig? If you know how to derive a sine, cosine and tangent, you should be able to figure the precise rotation angle out by working out the distances of the "triangle" formed by the bones in question. Check this out, I hope it helps you.

...if I'd known what I learned in math could be applied to let me make naked anime girls I probably would have paid much closer attention when I was in high school.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:05 PM   #1571
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That sounds like you're trying to do something like take something from a T-pose model and set it into an A-pose model. I actually do use a calculator on a pretty regular basis for this kind of thing. Are you familiar with trig? If you know how to derive a sine, cosine and tangent, you should be able to figure the precise rotation angle out by working out the distances of the "triangle" formed by the bones in question. Check this out, I hope it helps you.

...if I'd known what I learned in math could be applied to let me make naked anime girls I probably would have paid much closer attention when I was in high school.
Oh, using trigonometry would help! Thank you! But the last time I used trigonometry was like three years ago, and years before that it was in high school. Well, I have all of tomorrow to brush up, anyway.

And your model does look smooth!
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:43 PM   #1572
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I've gotten this far. As I keep noticing, some of the bones are definately differently scaled, and that throws off the fit, though not enough that I can't do this tacky image. The leg bones are definitely off, but I'm going to fix those last, because everything else is close to where it should be.

I intend to sacrifice the hands of the base body, and attach the clothed model's hands on there, instead, for the purposes of fidelity. The toes need to be resized to fit the boot (and as a wearer of boots, I can tell you that's painfully realistic!) because the clothed model doesn't have any insides. Base-san also needs to find an organ donor for a vagina and there's also the matter of breast reduction and all those other stickyouty bits. I really get the impression, though, that most of those will go away once I scale those parts down to the clothing armature's sizes.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:41 PM   #1573
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Originally Posted by lewdmon View Post
I've gotten this far. As I keep noticing, some of the bones are definately differently scaled, and that throws off the fit, though not enough that I can't do this tacky image. The leg bones are definitely off, but I'm going to fix those last, because everything else is close to where it should be.

I intend to sacrifice the hands of the base body, and attach the clothed model's hands on there, instead, for the purposes of fidelity. The toes need to be resized to fit the boot (and as a wearer of boots, I can tell you that's painfully realistic!) because the clothed model doesn't have any insides. Base-san also needs to find an organ donor for a vagina and there's also the matter of breast reduction and all those other stickyouty bits. I really get the impression, though, that most of those will go away once I scale those parts down to the clothing armature's sizes.
Be careful about that - mixing and matching skin meshes from different models can cause color seams and UV mapping problems if you don't know what you're doing, that's why most models just swap the head and keep the body intact while fitting the clothes over the other body's mesh. Otherwise it could literally wind up looking like Frankenstein.

Also the boobs on the Kanon model aren't that big compared to most models, I'm mildly amused she's still too big for Mikasa.
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:55 PM   #1574
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Be careful about that - mixing and matching skin meshes from different models can cause color seams and UV mapping problems if you don't know what you're doing, that's why most models just swap the head and keep the body intact while fitting the clothes over the other body's mesh. Otherwise it could literally wind up looking like Frankenstein.

Also the boobs on the Kanon model aren't that big compared to most models, I'm mildly amused she's still too big for Mikasa.
I'm not terribly concerned with texture issues or UV mapping breakage, because that's basically all I'm good at. But I would agree that it's concerning and do think I'm better off just using the ones from the base, already connected to the arms in the first place, rather than gluing and taping on the ones from the clothed model.

The breasts are the worst part. It's hard to contain them to the top and it's also hard have them look normal when they're resized. Fiddling with boobs is remarkably boring, and I shouldn't have wasted so much time on them before properly fixing everything else. That's definitely something to do last.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:23 PM   #1575
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I'm not terribly concerned with texture issues or UV mapping breakage, because that's basically all I'm good at. But I would agree that it's concerning and do think I'm better off just using the ones from the base, already connected to the arms in the first place, rather than gluing and taping on the ones from the clothed model.

The breasts are the worst part. It's hard to contain them to the top and it's also hard have them look normal when they're resized. Fiddling with boobs is remarkably boring, and I shouldn't have wasted so much time on them before properly fixing everything else. That's definitely something to do last.
You could do what a lot of modelers and editors do: Separate the breast mesh to a new material, make its transparency 0, and then make a morph to make it visible (the same one that hides the clothes if you want to make it easier to use). I don't have that option because I mostly work in PMD instead of PMX and that method also causes problems if you want the clothes to be strippable, so the other option is to carefully move and/or rescale the breast vertices (take notes so you know what you need to do to reverse it!) so they don't stick out. Here's what the swimsuit edit I'm working on looks like without the swimsuit; if you use the naked morph, the breasts return to the proper size and position.

The other thing to be careful about when joining mesh from two different models besides the texture and UV: the normals. Two vertices at the same coordinates, with the same texture, will not look the same color if their normals are pointing different directions. You know how to average the normals out, right? Select the vertices then hit ctrl+B.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:49 AM   #1576
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You could do what a lot of modelers and editors do: Separate the breast mesh to a new material, make its transparency 0, and then make a morph to make it visible (the same one that hides the clothes if you want to make it easier to use).
Thank you for the advice. In the end, I'll be doing that either way. I'm just having issues getting the shape proportional to what is [not] inside the shirt, and it's awkward to estimate because the shirt is lumpy, and while I don't want to watch the anime to figure out what the proper size should be, all the screencap I've seen are varying degrees of quality.

I really should take notes, but I don't. What I currently do, is make a new copy of the model for almost every edit with a different filename.

I'm no expert in normal editing, but I can flip them and edit them in a limited capacity. I intend to study it more once I'm done with this character I don't even like now,.

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Old 08-17-2018, 12:21 AM   #1577
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Thank you for the advice. In the end, I'll be doing that either way. I'm just having issues getting the shape proportional to what is [not] inside the shirt, and it's awkward to estimate because the shirt is lumpy, and while I don't want to watch the anime to figure out what the proper size should be, all the screencap I've seen are varying degrees of quality.

I really should take notes, but I don't. What I currently do, is make a new copy of the model for almost every edit with a different filename.

I'm no expert in normal editing, but I can flip them and edit them in a limited capacity. I intend to study it more once I'm done with this character I don't even like now,.
I can't overemphasize how helpful it is to keep notes. It's saved my ass on more than one occasion. Not just for fixing things I screwed up, but also for being able to reproduce my work later, which is huge when you make sets of models based on a common design like I do. I save my work frequently out of habit because my old laptop was prone to sudden "panic restarts" where it would bluescreen or just spontaneously restart without warning when I was working with MMD. I have a newer computer now that doesn't flinch if I leave MMD or PMDEditor open overnight--but it also likes to get an update to Windows in the middle of the night and restart without telling me. Plus I sometimes start working on something and then drop it for months and come back to it later, so that lets me pick up where I left off without having to remember everything.

The screenshot you're seeing is from my main Idolmaster note file. I've been using it continuously for just about six and a half years now, since I first started editing, and it's currently 178KB plain text. A lot of it is just jotted-down XYZ coordinates I used for quick reference and copy/pasting that would look like gobbledygook to a reader, but there are a lot of formulas and stream-of-consciousness instructions I wrote myself in there. I'm actually using it right now because my current edits are going to use a body without shoes so I have to reposition all the heads to match the new bodies without any seams where the head joins the neck.

All you really need to know about normals is that if two vertices occupy the same spot, in most cases their normals should be identical or light will reflect weird off it and it won't look right. Sometimes you want to have split normals, like at the edge of a piece of metal where light should be reflecting in different directions, but along curved surfaces like skin or tongues nearby vertices should be pointed in the same general direction. This was something I had to mess with myself to really understand. Hitting ctrl+B averages the normals of two (or more) selected vertices which will make them point in the same direction, then you just need to manually rotate the normal until it's pointing the way you want it to.
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Old 08-17-2018, 04:09 PM   #1578
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are you... talking to yourself in the notes?
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Old 08-17-2018, 06:16 PM   #1579
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The closest I've come to your note making process was when working out the values for Neps. Big Neptune was around the same size as Nepgear according to her sprites, I don't remember if it's the same for her models, but I really doubt it, because Tsunako art, artbook measurements, sprites and models all follow different heights. The only reason I did it in the first place, was because of a problem you mentioned earlier (Either this thread or the older one), where the official measurements are just completely arbitrary. She's around 161cm iirc, but her measurements are something different. When Rebirth+ comes out, I expect to have to take notes properly, but for this, just one character, I feel as though it's unnecessary future proofing in this instance, but for other series I can certainly see the benefits.

You think that's bad, Guthix, I talk to myself while I work.

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Old 08-17-2018, 07:49 PM   #1580
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are you... talking to yourself in the notes?
I write notes for the complex stuff as if I was writing a tutorial. That helps me keep track of the process I used to work my calculations out so I'm not just staring at a formula I jotted down six months later going "How the fuck did I work this out and how do I apply it?" Also, it means I have something I can quickly copypasta if I run into someone trying to work out the same thing I was.
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