Hentai Mikumiku Dance (MMD) Thread 3

[Mythterious]

Originally Posted by MMDisaster

First one is her name in hiragana, with no space or dot between the words. Be careful, the hiragana for "be" looks almost exactly like the katakana.

Cant figure out what they want. I translated her name, but it didn't work. If you cant download it, can you let me know if the model is any good?

[Ruiyabi]

Kuroyuzu Model Buy.
https://3d.nicovideo.jp/users/25049012

[MMDisaster]

Originally Posted by back2you

くりあろうべる

Doesn't work how come?


-

Cant figure out what they want. I translated her name, but it didn't work. If you cant download it, can you let me know if the model is any good?

Need to use that ー in her name instead of the う to extend the vowel. Try that. The rest was correct.

[Gulkeeva]

new thread, and the past dozen or so posts moved since the thread doesn't update frequently.

[QuestionableEnigma]

Recently trying my hand at trying to modify a semi-rigged model off of nicovideo that was a blend file before I exported it to pmx. Never done this before, but I want to ask if I can get some help about this. What's a good place to explain things like making facials, rigids, and stuff like that? I know about renaming bones and morphs to adjust so that MMD can read it. Its been a slow progress trying to work this.

If you want to see what model I'm talking about that I'm attempting to make my first complete MMD rig of, its this one: https://3d.nicovideo.jp/works/td55848

[guthix]

Originally Posted by QuestionableEnigma

Recently trying my hand at trying to modify a semi-rigged model off of nicovideo that was a blend file before I exported it to pmx. Never done this before, but I want to ask if I can get some help about this. What's a good place to explain things like making facials, rigids, and stuff like that? I know about renaming bones and morphs to adjust so that MMD can read it. Its been a slow progress trying to work this.

If you want to see what model I'm talking about that I'm attempting to make my first complete MMD rig of, its this one: https://3d.nicovideo.jp/works/td55848

Also a weird partial, half-hearted request for a higher experienced person to rig this, but I still want to try my hand at this for my first time.

https://ecchi.iwara.tv/videos/bLzef4g5tyJ1Q4q
due to his scares schedule, im not sure hes active.
takuya knows both how to edit and export to mmd

[QuestionableEnigma]

edit and export to mmd

Oh. No, I've already got the model into MMD easily enough with the semi rigged bones, clothes textures and all included. Took me a bit how to reapply the textures cause it came out white as first but that's solved.

I finished up renaming all the bones, partially renamed the facial morphs, added some bones that weren't there (center, master, leg iks, etc.) and its going alright.

What I want to know how to do in editor is if I can fix the rest of the model, like these points specifically:

- It doesn't have eye bones. How can I add that?
- The model comes out very shiny when in MMD for some reason.

- How do I add rigids/physics?
- The model didn't have a lower torso bone? Had three spine bones and one of them just controlled the entire skirt while also playing as the second torso bone as well?

- The model came with an EX_Face for the anime expressions, but I can't get them to show up when I move the sliders for them. (like heart eyes, blush, etc.)

[MMDisaster]

Originally Posted by QuestionableEnigma

Oh. No, I've already got the model into MMD easily enough with the semi rigged bones, clothes textures and all included. Took me a bit how to reapply the textures cause it came out white as first but that's solved.

I finished up renaming all the bones, partially renamed the facial morphs, added some bones that weren't there (center, master, leg iks, etc.) and its going alright.

What I want to know how to do in editor is if I can fix the rest of the model, like these points specifically:

- It doesn't have eye bones. How can I add that?
- The model comes out very shiny when in MMD for some reason.

- How do I add rigids/physics?
- The model didn't have a lower torso bone? Had three spine bones and one of them just controlled the entire skirt while also playing as the second torso bone as well?

- The model came with an EX_Face for the anime expressions, but I can't get them to show up when I move the sliders for them. (like heart eyes, blush, etc.)

The model might have used vertex or UV morphs for the eyes. To add eye bones is simple but tedious; you put the bones in and name them properly, then use the weight painter to weight the iris/pupile of each eye to its respective bone. If the eyes are all one material you may have to separate the vertices of the iris from the sclera. If the irises are just a painted-on texture, you are in for a world of pain. Hope you like the Knife tool.

Once you've got the eyes weighted the bones need to be positioned properly so that when they rotate the eye mesh doesn't clip out of the socket. Generally this position is behind and somewhat towards the centerline compared to the actual eye mesh, but every model is different and there isn't a hard rule. You just need to use TransformView and play around with the bone positions until you find a place where it doesn't clip out whichever direction you turn it in. Don't forget to make the positions of the bones symmetrical.

Lastly you can make a master eye bone to control both eyes at once. The eye bones should be set as type 5 (dark blue) or type 9 (purple) and the master should be type 0 (light blue). Set the influence (Gr) parent as the master eye bone, and the Gr value controls how much the eyes are moved by it (I've seen 0.5-1 as typical values).

Regarding your shininess, check the shininess value and the specular/reflective color in the Materials tab. If the spec. color is maxed out at 1-1-1, reflections are very bright. Also check if the model is using sphere files and if they're properly set as additive or multiplicative. Additive sphere files should be very dark gray, almost black; lighter-colored spheres are multiplicative.

Adding rigid bodies is super easy. Select the bones you want to add bodies to, go to Edit in the view window, Bone (B), and go to the section with five options. The second creates a fixed rigid body for that bone, the third creates a physics-dependent rigid body, the fourth creates a joint, and the fifth creates a rigid body and a joint integrated together. There's also a plugin that can do this.

The hard part is making the physics work. Use the Rigid body tab to resize and reshape your bodies as necessary; for mass and friction coefficients I recommend you study a similar finished model and use the same mass and damping settings they use. Same goes for the rotation settings in the joints. Then work from there and play around with them until things move the way you want. Remember every joint has to be connected to two rigid bodies or MMD will crash when you load the model.

Models that come from outside MMD tend to not use the same naming system so they don't have defined upper/lower body bones. I'd just use the lowest one as the lower body and the others as the upper bodies (there shouldn't be more than 3 or 4). You might have to do some re-weighting.

Is the EX face a separate mesh? You can check by using the box in the Viewer that lets you select different materials. Click the button that displays the morphs, then select the morph you're trying to make work to see what vertices are affected by it. If they're supposed to move but they're not, use the Expression tab to manually edit the morph. If it's a UV morph I recommend using the UV Editor plugin to fix it. The UV values for the model in MMD might be reversed or mirrored compared to the original program.

One last thing: If it came from another program the model probably doesn't have a groove, waist or arm twist bones. The Semi-Standard Bones plugin is an easy way to add those to the model, although the arm twists will probably need to be tweaked.

[QuestionableEnigma]

All the instructions.

Hmmm. Honestly having a difficult time on where to start first among all this. I fixed the brightness by putting all material specular on 0, 0, 0. The model never came with toons or spheres. The EX_Face is just a texture for the eye change stars, heart, blush, and the sad blue forehead thing. The eye texture has two different eye pairs in the same picture. One for normal and one for a probably lifeless, soulless look, which works when using the right morph slider.

[MMDisaster]

Originally Posted by QuestionableEnigma

Hmmm. Honestly having a difficult time on where to start first among all this. I fixed the brightness by putting all material specular on 0, 0, 0. The model never came with toons or spheres. The EX_Face is just a texture for the eye change stars, heart, blush, and the sad blue forehead thing. The eye texture has two different eye pairs in the same picture. One for normal and one for a probably lifeless, soulless look, which works when using the right morph slider.

I always tell myself when I'm starting an edit and I feel overwhelmed "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step." Fastest and easiest thing to start on is to make the basic collision bodies for the non-physics parts of the body like the arms, legs and head; the editor will do it for you, you just have to tell it to. The only parts that need physics/joints are the hair, breasts and parts of the clothing intended for them. You can worry about that later.

You might have to duplicate the face mesh and make a version exclusively for the EX face to use the blush and forehead shading, depending on how it's mapped. Make sure there isn't an otherwise-invisible mesh that's supposed to be mapped to them.

I'd probably still give it a slight specular color or it won't reflect light at all, most models have this value set at 0.1-0.1-0.1 to 0.15. The eye color thing is a UV morph so if you need to fix or adjust it use the UV Editor plugin or you won't even be able to see what you're doing.

The eye bones are probably going to take the most time. It takes 30 seconds to make the actual bones, the hard part is going to be properly positioning them.

[guthix]

Originally Posted by MMDisaster

the hard part is going to be properly positioning them.

merge 2 vertices on the opposite top and bottom of the eye
take note of the coordinates
undo
make a bone
move bone to noted coordinates

or am I missing something else entirely?

[MMDisaster]

Originally Posted by guthix

merge 2 vertices on the opposite top and bottom of the eye
take note of the coordinates
undo
make a bone
move bone to noted coordinates

or am I missing something else entirely?

That gets you the y-coordinates, but if the bone is right where the eye mesh is it'll spin in place instead of traveling back and forth in the socket when it's rotated. The further back in the head you set it from the eye the more travel it has. It has to be towards the centerline instead of straight back so that it doesn't clip out of the head when it's rotated far to the side.

It's probably more easy to describe what I'm saying with a picture. Yellow arrows pointing at the eye bones, blue arrows pointing at the centers of the eye meshes. View is from directly above.

[QuestionableEnigma]

Progress has been smooth. Doing this is definitely agreeable to being easy, but tedious. Bones finished renaming. Bones added to complete the rig of anything it was missing. Got the facial morphs renamed for the most part. Physics and joints are going soundly. Apart from not making the eye bones yet, I still have a few more inquiries.

- Fingers were rigged somewhat funny, it's difficult to angle them right without having something alike to the morph edit reflect to see the changes in transform view.

- I wanted to complete the facial expression set by adding a frown and blink. The normal blink not smile blink. Working with this model's eyes is... troublesome. (Yea... declaring making facials with pinpointing vertexes at specific points is a trial right now. Glad I only need to do frown and normal blink. I do have the frown done, but the bottom lip is a little bit jagged. Gonna have to come back to that.)

- Still figuring out to convert the bottom spine to be lower body. Like weighting? I haven't touched that yet so I don't know of how that's going to work.

Hair and skirt physics are going okay with the reference I'm using. Though the hair are clashing a bit with each other, might get another ref to get them not to collide into each other in a sizable distance.

When I get it into an enough of a feasible rig, I'll throw it here for others to spot check it and use. While I was figuring out making facials work, I found a small sphere within the head... not sure what that is... might be part of the EX_Face. The EX_Face mesh... thing is apparently a weird thing that's invisible and you only see a little bit of a silhouette of the face if you turn the camera at an angle. Here's screenshot of my progress.

[guthix]

Originally Posted by MMDisaster

That gets you the y-coordinates, but if the bone is right where the eye mesh is it'll spin in place instead of traveling back and forth in the socket when it's rotated. The further back in the head you set it from the eye the more travel it has. It has to be towards the centerline instead of straight back so that it doesn't clip out of the head when it's rotated far to the side.

It's probably more easy to describe what I'm saying with a picture. Yellow arrows pointing at the eye bones, blue arrows pointing at the centers of the eye meshes. View is from directly above.

coulda sworn I read sphere eyes in those walls of text. as merging a sphere would net all 3 coordinates.
I'm not sure if that type of eye [from the pic] is ever properly rigged. they look weird from certain angles as if they go inward rather than being round.

>When I get it into an enough of a feasible rig, I'll throw it here for others to spot check it and use

this might sound like a waste of time, but usually unnoticed kinks gets picked up after redoing everything again. we can do only surface level check up, but the nitty gritty of the problems surface when you're doing a full project. only comfort I can give you is every redo is usually faster than the last.

[MMDisaster]

Originally Posted by guthix

coulda sworn I read sphere eyes in those walls of text. as merging a sphere would net all 3 coordinates.
I'm not sure if that type of eye [from the pic] is ever properly rigged. they look weird from certain angles as if they go inward rather than being round.

That was TDA Miku's eyes which I assume are pretty standard. I get what you mean about it looking flat and sinking back into the eye when it's turned, some models have a morph that lets you give a convex shape to the iris, so it looks more natural and not flat when you see it from the side.

- I wanted to complete the facial expression set by adding a frown and blink. The normal blink not smile blink. Working with this model's eyes is... troublesome. (Yea... declaring making facials with pinpointing vertexes at specific points is a trial right now. Glad I only need to do frown and normal blink. I do have the frown done, but the bottom lip is a little bit jagged. Gonna have to come back to that.)

It's highly unlikely that there is, but if you happen to have a version of the model where the eyes are already closed you can actually use that to make a morph IF the two models are identical in terms of number of vertices. On the morph edit page you can import the vertex positions from the other model by going to File -> (O) or Ctrl+O.

- Still figuring out to convert the bottom spine to be lower body. Like weighting? I haven't touched that yet so I don't know of how that's going to work.

I just meant naming it the lower body bone. You shouldn't have to re-rig if it's already controlling the lower body area.

Hair and skirt physics are going okay with the reference I'm using. Though the hair are clashing a bit with each other, might get another ref to get them not to collide into each other in a sizable distance.

Assuming the hair bodies are all in the same physics group, checking the checkbox for that group number should put a stop to it. If you want them to collide but not touch each other as easily you can reduce the angles allowed for their joints so they don't move as much. Also there's a plugin that generates skirt physics automatically.

[QuestionableEnigma]

It's highly unlikely that there is, but if you happen to have a version of the model where the eyes are already closed you can actually use that to make a morph IF the two models are identical in terms of number of vertices.

Couldn't I like make her do the smile blink in PMEditor and have some method of permanently saving that blink forever closed so I can make a normal blink that way?

I just meant naming it the lower body bone. You shouldn't have to re-rig if it's already controlling the lower body area.

That's what I did. It worked well as a lower torso when I use it by moving the waist, but the weighting says the lower torso is essentially between where the middle torso is and doesn't bridge into the lower torso. It still acts as a third spine in that regard. It half works, but I want the lower torso to be exactly like the other models where its weight is directed around the crouch and rear area. Tested it on motions applying lower torso and it would move it unnaturally.

there's a plugin that generates skirt physics automatically.

I did try out the skirt plugin before your post, but I think with the way the lower torso is, it caused some issues where it caused points in the skirt to unnaturally poke upwards. It only seems to happen in MMD, and MMM makes the issue non-existent and apparently fixed.

usually unnoticed kinks gets picked up after redoing everything again. we can do only surface level check up, but the nitty gritty of the problems surface when you're doing a full project. only comfort I can give you is every redo is usually faster than the last.

I see... I'll try my best.

[MMDisaster]

Originally Posted by QuestionableEnigma

Couldn't I like make her do the smile blink in PMEditor and have some method of permanently saving that blink forever closed so I can make a normal blink that way?

Absolutely. Make the pose in TransformView, save the state as a pmx, then make a new vertex morph and open that model to copy the positions over. It's worth mentioning that in TransformView you can actually push morphs farther than they normally go. If you type a number greater than 1 into the percentage area, the vertices will keep moving past where the morph would normally stop. That may or may not be useful to you. You might even be able to use another eye morph in conjunction with the smile to make it look more like a "normal" blink without having to manually adjust the vertices.

Originally Posted by QuestionableEnigma

That's what I did. It worked well as a lower torso when I use it by moving the waist, but the weighting says the lower torso is essentially between where the middle torso is and doesn't bridge into the lower torso. It still acts as a third spine in that regard. It half works, but I want the lower torso to be exactly like the other models where its weight is directed around the crouch and rear area. Tested it on motions applying lower torso and it would move it unnaturally.

OK, I get what you mean. You're probably either going to need to re-weight or use WeightTargetReplace to change what bone the vertices in the hip area are rigged to. What bone is the hip area weighted to right now?

Originally Posted by QuestionableEnigma

I did try out the skirt plugin before your post, but I think with the way the lower torso is, it caused some issues where it caused points in the skirt to unnaturally poke upwards. It only seems to happen in MMD, and MMM makes the issue non-existent and apparently fixed.

Verify those non-collision markers for the rigid body groups in the skirt would be my suggestion. If MMD and MMM make the same model behave differently it could have to do with how they handle physics differently (I think MMM's is more advanced). The plugin may also have incorrectly weighted those vertices to the lower body instead of to the skirt bones they were supposed to be attached to, and you might be able to fix it with manual re-weighting if there aren't too many of them.

[Mythterious]

So, I have a question for all you self taught MMD creators. Has anyone tried setting up a model with these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs0z...Q&index=2&t=0s

It looks like a really neat concept.

[guthix]

not to sound like a snoby elitist, but turning other body parts other than the legs to ik is nothing new.
its kinda useless unless you make your own motions though

[MMDisaster]

Some of the newer models have master finger rotation bones that let you move the whole finger or even all five at once for easy grips without having to set up an IK. The model has to have the extra bones for it but it makes use easier and you don't have to worry about the IKs causing weird shit to happen.