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Old 05-05-2007, 12:15 AM   #1
Mira_Kitty
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Default VRS and modding question

Hello, I would dearly love to get into dat modding, but have a few problems and questions that I hope other Dat modding greats on here would help me with^^;

Regarding VRS, I have downloaded it, and downloaded the DirectX9 listed on the site, however I still do not have the tool box filled with the things that GrumpyRarab mentions in his modding guide. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, I'm usually not this inept with computers; ;

Secondly, if I can ever get VRS going, I would like to start by porting several armors. I see this requested a lot and would love to help out with doing ports for my own enjoyment and others as well, so any links to guides or helpful tips on how to port would be much appreciated

Sorry if this seems like a big request, but many thanks in advance to anyone who offers me help :D To borrow this picture from another poster on this forum:
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:28 AM   #2
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God VRS is scary when first setting it up. May sound dumb, but did you separately install the directX9 pack (as it isnt auto installed by vrs or anything)? Also try unistalling VRS completely. Removing those registry entries mention in the guide. Installing directX9, rebooting, then installing VRS. I dunno why you wouldnt get the toolbox mentioned, so those are my only thoughts. Hope you can get it running.
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Old 05-05-2007, 02:18 AM   #3
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:oops:
:oops:
:oops:
:oops:
I was clicking on the wrong .exe the whole time.....oi.

Um, but my toolbox has different things than listed in G.R. tut. Instead of "FFXI Model Exporter" etc mine says "FFXI model read" <.<; I'm hoping this is just a different version maybe. But oh boy is VRS sooooooooooooooo more complicated than Meta. And I was proud of myself for sorta figuring out Meta :cry: Man I got a long road ahead of me.

Darkside, dear, since you were so nice to reply, may I ask if you did your upskirt 18+ dats in VRS? I have ulmia's gear that I would like to make into a similar style but not sure how to go about it.

I'm so excited....now I dunno if I can get to sleep :shock: Want...to play...with VRS...

Edit:::
Mira_Kitty was defeated by VRS.
Mira_Kitty returns to homepoint, shaking fist at VRS and vowing revenge....
....after a good night's sleep.
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Old 05-05-2007, 02:58 AM   #4
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First off your menu reads like mine does, its an updated version of VRS & thanks your stars you got that over the one in rarabs guide. cause its easier to read, more stuff is translated. Only thing that confused me is for the Skeleton weighting window, its now called "envelope open" dunno why.

& yes, i did my mods in VRS, no other choice. but also in Meta. VRS cant be used for texture remapping. but Meta cant be used for Vertices/Surface modification, Skeleton Weights, & Normal (light angle) adjusting. So I always use model viewer first to extract the texture (cause, & this SUX about VRS when it resaves the file, it resaves the texture & it come out blotchier) then do my 3D modding in VRS, save it, Then use model viewer again to extract the texture/mqo again under slightly different name & replace the textures with the first ones i extracted. Then i use Meta for any texture modding. Then reimport in model viewer. & YES it is overly complicated XD. Also, if you plan to do any bmp editting, i advise you to get the photoshop dds plugin, cause stupid graphics converter also always slightly changes the texture when it saves from bmp > dds. But directly editting a dds file in photoshop & directly resaving keeps its full integrity.

Hope all that helps after you're done absorbing it all. I didnt really jump in full force, but rather first mod was basic vertex adjusting, Later moved onto skeleton adjusting, later still was surface adding, & later still was normal ajusting. Took a while before i could understand everything.
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Old 05-05-2007, 11:25 AM   #5
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Thanks so much for your help Darkside :D
Yeah wow VRS is gonna take lots of work to learn, but I've got a whole summer and a determined mind mwaha :twisted:

I don't suppose you know of a tutorial or might give a few steps on how to do porting? Course that's prolly miles away from where I am VRSwise but might as well jump in with both feet, haha :roll:

This is me guessing how to make the mod I want to do: I'm guessing that I need to combine a nude model with the gear model I want, then delete vertices in the gear to let the nude skin show through...?

Easy to say....much harder to do..../goes back to studying Rarab's tutorials. :?

Ack, one more question, in my Meta I don't have the UV button, instead the MAP button takes up the whole space. Did I miss something somewhere? I'm thinking I can't edit textures without that nifty UV button :cry: I know my computer is sitting here laughing at my ineptitude.
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Old 05-05-2007, 02:18 PM   #6
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Porting is rarely direct. Tho one of the reasons i do mithra & hume female is cause the default stance & size of the models are identical (mithras are smaller in game cause the game shrinks them). So porting mithra to hume female means taking an object & copy/pasting it onto the other then changing every single vetices skeleton weight to the appropriate one on the other (say skeleton 5 on hume female thigh bone = skeleton 13 on mithra, if its weighted at .7 i have to make skeleton 5 = 0 & 13 = .7 or vice versa). Its very tedious & time consuming, & thats an easy port. Most races arent the same size/position, in which case most ppl really just rebuild the model from the same base pieces but for a different race, from scratch basically, & dont directly port anything at all.

Dont have any tutorials other then grumpy rarab. anything not in there was found out thru trial & error & exploring VRS/Meta.

As for the 18+ models, yes combine the nude model with the gear you wanna use & delete any unneeded vertices. Might need to match up some vertices also. for legs ussually clipping isnt an issue except sometimes around the butt. bodies tend to have alot more clipping issues & can sometimes mean spending hours adjusting skeleton weights or vertice positions to eliminate them. Wenrick has removed the boob bounce on many of his bodies & so have I just because of clipping problems & movement issues.

What version of Meta do you have? i have 2.4 which has the UV button, maybe you have an old version? yes that UV button is pretty much the main & only thing you do in Meta so yeah you kinda need it.

Any other questions feel free to ask. Hope you get things running smoothly.
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Old 05-05-2007, 02:46 PM   #7
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Aha, I had an old version of Meta. Got the newest from the site and now I have my precious UV, yay.

As far as VRS goes, I've managed to combine the models, now I have my poor mithra's breasts bursting from her ulmia gear O_o My problem is that with so many black lines, I dunno where to start X_X

I guess if you don't mind I'll tell you what I have in mind and maybe you and/or others can kinda walk me through it. :oops: I want to basically make it look like your Robe mod (added a pic below, I'm shooting for the one on the right, the "closed" mod).

I'll probably be working on trying to get this working all day, while anxiously checking forums for replies, haha!
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Old 05-05-2007, 03:56 PM   #8
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Well first off, if you nitoce when you highlight an object in schematic view, the coordinate window become active showing 0,0,0. I always shift whatever objects i'm working on up in Y coordinate by 2 to move it out of the way of the other junk, & i work up there. (Dont forget to move the object back down by 2 at the end or you get a crazy shirt 5 feet above the model in game). Also, dont hesitate to open another model at the same time to sort of compare whats going on, you can have multiple models open, but VRS is incapable of saving a model except the last one opened (which means know this ahead of time & open the comparison model first, or just delete the comparison item when time to save & the model you're working on becomes the right-most / last model opened).

I ussually delete any breast material that wont be showing from any viewpoint in game which helps on clippiing issues, just gotta worry about the edges of what remains.

In your case, first thing i would do is open ulmia, then open an mithra model that you plan to save over, then move the jacket object onto that model. then start deleting the veritices from the jacket until you have only the part that you want remaining. After that i'd grab the nude body & place that into the working object & start discarding uneeded vertices. This is where comparing to another model comes in handy, you can open that mithra model of mine & see what areas are removed in that object to know where to go. Next step, is pulling out the jacket vertices to cover the remaining breast surfaces & to make it look like a fuller chest. At this point you're probably gonna need to add vertices & edges & surfaces. If you add any surfaces, make sure you highlight those surfaces & create a new texture on them, set the name of the texture to match, set the lower X/Y coords to 127,255, & final step set it to UV (important to set it to UV AFTER setting the coords, otherwise when you wanna play with those surfaces in Meta later, every vertice will be merged at 0,0 & it becomes very hard). Gonna have to probably save a few times till you have the look you desire. Then, gotta start examining movement & thats when adjusting skeletal weights to fix clipping issues comes into play.

Good Luck with the project.

p.s. i have question for you, i never discovered the render in VRS button i always had to save it to see it in model viewer or altana view. where's that render located?

edit: just realized you're putting an elvaan skeleton object onto a mithra. when you move the jacket onto a mithra skeleton, you have 1 doozy of a project ahead of you. you need to set EVERY vertice to the proper skeleton on a mithra. This means you might actually need to spend several hours just with an open base mithra & open base elvaan & try to see which skeletons match up, ie. is the right shoulder blade 41 on mithra & 52 on elvaan or whatever. Setting every vertice to the proper mithra skeleton is going to be very time consuming & tedious & you might start pulling your hair out >.<

edit2: another easier way to go about the whole project it just to reskin the jacket you like & then do some final vertice editting if you want it shaped differently. Most of the work will be in Meta.
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Old 05-05-2007, 05:38 PM   #9
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O_O good lord I picked a hell of a project to start modding on didn't I lol.
Maaaaybe I'll start a little smaller first. Your reskinning idea was a great one. For that I assume I'll need to use ChangeTex? I've downloaded it but never played with it, so I guess I'll go on from there.

As far as the rendering, after reading a bazillion guides (there's some good specific ones on www.ffximc.com in their forums, a little hard to understand but good info) You need to right click on one of the Perspective windows, then go down to "Property..." that will bring up another window. Go to the "Rendering" tab and under "Rendering Type" scroll down to "Flat Rendering". The guide I read said that is the least PC intensive render and as you can see it looks fine so that's what my settings are on atm.

I'll start playing with ChangeTex now and see what I can come up with. I'll also try to find a VRS project that I can actually handle haha.

Also this may sound like a really stupid question but how do you go about deleting the vertices? When I try to do the single select on that model I posted above, it selects the whole outfit, not just one part of it.

I'll keep working on this, thanks so much for all your help Darkside :D

EDIT: Hokay, managed to get the Ulmia texture onto one of your robe mods, opened it up in Meta, clicked the UV and ... <.< iono maybe I'm blind but I dun see my texture, I just see the nude part. Imma open up another one of your mods that I haven't fooled with and see if there's a difference. Bah this is all so complicated @_@ and I haven't even started the tough stuff yet :cry:
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Old 05-05-2007, 06:26 PM   #10
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Dont need changetex at all for reskins, just export in model viewer the model that has the texture you want, & the model you wanna put the texture on. then delete (or rename) the unwanted texture on the desired model, rename the desired texture to the appropriate name. Then open in Meta to start adjusting UV placement if needed. Finally reimport thru model viewer.

As far as playing with vertices, when you do any work in VRS, you have to watch butting your operation button, & your target button (2 of the side windows). Your target is probably on mesh object, so the action is 'Select>Mesh Object' Change the target to the vertex button, & its 'Select>Vertex'. To delete just hit the delete button. Adding you need to have the operation button on add vertex.

Keep on at it & you'll get it. you're welcome.
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Old 05-05-2007, 06:35 PM   #11
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Hookay in that case I guess I'll put aside what I had edited in the above post and try what you suggested.

And the journey continues on! @_@
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Old 05-05-2007, 07:14 PM   #12
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Alright still having a problem getting the texture. It shows up in Meta like in the pic I posted above but I can't find the UV map for it, and when I tried to just save it as is, and put it back into model viewer the texture wasn't changed.

Arg. :?
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Old 05-05-2007, 08:31 PM   #13
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ok you see how in the left panel, there's a dark gray "System" then "Edit" then "command" (& command is the one you have open where the UV button is). Open up System, there's 2 buttons, ObjPane & MatPane. those each open a little window one for materials, & one for objects. You use that to select between which material you're viewing & which object you're working on. Since your model has multiple textures, appareantly the nude texture is the first in the file, you just need to select the 2nd material.
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:16 PM   #14
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I'm sorry, I've hit a snag again :cry:
I found the mat that I wanna remap but the lines are in red and won't let me select them.
It looks fine except for the sleeves that have Mithra tail mushed all over them haha.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that this is the original new texture that I got from ChangeTex...maybe that's why Meta isn't allowing me to edit it? But when I tried what you suggested earlier, the new texture shows up in Meta but will not show up when the dat is reconverted.

Guess I'll keep messing with it! I'm not giving up yet!!
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:51 PM   #15
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OKay I fixed part of my problem by trying the same dat with hume f. I wasn't changing the right file. Here's the Hume F so far....the feather detail on the sleeves is giving me hell~_~ Still don't know why now both my mithra versions have red lines that won't let me edit them. Might just throw em all out and start over.

[EDIT] Let's just call me an idiot an move on..... -____- Fixed the problem of not being able to edit. Now just to perfect the positioning of the textures.
Takin' a break then I'll tackle this beast once more.
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Old 05-05-2007, 11:47 PM   #16
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Not exactly what you were refering to with the red lines, but whatever it was, you got it handled. People are always the harshest critic of there own work, its looking really good so far keep up the good work. :D & think back to what point in dat modding you were less then 24 hours ago you've come quite a ways. This project the way you've handled it is a good way to start cause its getting you very familiar with the texturing & UV mapping part of modding without having to do much work yet with vertices. Feel free to keep running questions by me.
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Old 05-06-2007, 12:31 AM   #17
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Thanks so much, you've been an awesome help =) Mithra nearly finished I think, gonna post it in Mithra section when I'm finished^^ I feel well on my way to a (hopefully) successful hobby as a DATmodder 8)
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Old 05-06-2007, 12:40 AM   #18
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You're very welcome, glad i could help :D
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Old 05-06-2007, 01:25 AM   #19
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Mrew! Body Finished~!! Undecided whether to post it on forums yet tho, since I wanted to include the legs as a set. I started on them just now but when I swapped the textures it only appeared for the bikini part and left the part covering the knees the same. Sorry if that makes no sense I'm a lil tired x.X gonna get some sleep and tackle more of the legs tomorrow.
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:43 AM   #20
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Couldnt see the image, getting a little X placeholder & clicking on it says file attachment not found. so not sure whats going on. I'll wait till you revisit it tomorrow to weigh in
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