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Old 05-14-2007, 03:42 AM   #1
Wenrick
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In society today, people say you shouldn't talk about religion or politics.

Unfortunately, these two subjects are such an integral part of our lives. So much so, that people hold their views so close to themselves that any disagreements are quickly considered a personal attack.

We live in a world that so politically charged, and there are masses of people on both sides of all issues. It is impossible to escape politics. Regardless of how hard we try, it will always come back and haunt us.

So people are left with a decision. What do you do about it? How long can you ignore politics before it comes back again.

My life has taken many turns, and I have made a decision. Its time for me to "take the bull by the horns." And I know that once I do, I can't ever let go. Its time for me to become politically active and make my voice heard. I will not stand by and let other people rule my life.

Now that that's over, let me say that by no means is anyone required to post in this thread. If you wish to continuing ignoring politics, that is your decision. I also understand that these subjects sometimes divide people, rather than unite them. I do not wish to divide or fracture this community at all. My wish is for open and honest discussion of issues to take place. No name calling, no insults. Be smart and mature about your responses.

This thread is for anyone who wishes to make their voice heard when it comes to religion, politics, or any other "forbidden" topics. Who knows. This thread may become locked if things get out of hand.

I have been doing a lot of research on Global Warming lately, as well as the history of terrorism. Together, they can be considered the issues of our time; the two most difinitive components that dictate the future.

The more I learn about radical islam, the more adamant I feel that it should be stopped. Its philosophy of "kill or be killed" has existed for decades, and is only getting stronger. The countless atrocities over the past 20+ years speak for themselves. If we don't stop them, they will kill us.

Now for Global Warming. The more I learn about GW the more ridiculous it seems. There's a lot of data on this subject, and its a big stretch to conclude that man is behind the warming trend. I know people will disagree, but seriously, terrorism is a much bigger threat than GW could ever hope to be.

Agree or disagree, that is what I believe.
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Old 05-14-2007, 03:51 AM   #2
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GW is very dramatized :P
that's why US isnt in the kyoto protocol cause if all of America used no forms of things that are said to cause GW for 100years, the world might decrease 1degree farenheit.
and~ NASA shows that the world is in a cooling trend, and the earth has to ability to recover (i.e. how it covers meteor impact sites and such) so GW isnt a problem :P
ppl dont even research and just listen to TV shows and they think it's realli true.
 
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:34 AM   #3
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Global warming or not, just about everyone agrees that the environment should be protected, and all the Co2 we spew into the atmosphere can't be good in the extreme long term. But there is a balance, the more Co2 that gets pumped out theoretically means more plant life springing up, and more Co2 gets converted to oxygen from those plants. However, we also cut down trees faster than they can regrow, negating this. Back in the times of the Vikings, Greenland looked just as it does now, ice free and pretty damn lush around the southern areas and the coast. Problems will start to spring up if the ice continues to melt though. Whether global warming will have the catastrophic predicted effects remains to be seen. Because of the "threat" of global warming though, our society is becoming cleaner, and less Dependant on oil, which is a good thing.

Radical Islam will never be eliminated. The only way to destroy the radicals is a 21st century holocaust. Only by destroying all of Islam will the radical sect be eradicated. And that is not something any country is willing to do. Christian radicals aren't much better though, the only positive thing they have going is that they don't blow themselves up in abortion clinics, or non Christian establishments. The fact that they're ruining America counters that though.
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:43 AM   #4
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Honestly I've heard so many theories about Global Warming that my ability to care has drastically dropped to the way I feel about many things, which is to say... "Meh." Though the best theory I think I've heard so far is that the Earths warming is related to how the Sun was acting hundreds to thousand of years ago, I'm not to keen on the speed it's heat and light go at, so not a damn thing we can do will prevent whatever that happens will happen.

As for Radical Islam... meh. Not much we can do about that either since over there the Iraqi's worst enemy are themselves since they think that by grinding against us is the best way, and the fanatical zealots wanting everyone to live in their paleolithic lifestyle doesn't help any, when all it's doing is making us stay a lot longer then any of us want to be. Just co-operate with us, let us do what we're trying to do, as stupid as I believe it is, and we'll go the hell away. I'd like to think that anyway but I wouldn't put it past a certain person in charge whom I always wonder if he passed Kindergarten to stick around with more lies and screw things up even worse.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:48 PM   #5
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The main problem the world needs to face is dependency on oil. Its not just cars. Its power plants, trains, planes, and a hundred other uses. But the vast majority of the oil consumption is in power plants. To me, the clear solution is nuclear energy. The more I learn about nuclear energy, the better it sounds. Its safe and 95% renewable, but it costs a lot to impliment.

Putting CO2 into the atmosphere just isn't a big deal (except for causing smog in metropolitan areas). I just found out recently that more trees are planted than are cut down. And if you look at the overall percentage of CO2 put into the atmosphere by humans compared to all other sources (yes even with all of our coal and oil burning) that it is only a small fraction. Also, CO2 accounts for roughly 4% of the greenhouse effect. Basically we are causing an increase in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction. If you apply statistics, your hypothesis test will not conclude that man is making a significant difference.

Don't neglect the fact that carbon dioxide does not drive temperature, its the other way around.

Islam is a sticky situation. Not all Muslim people are radicals. We can't tollerate terrorist activities, yet we can't go commit genocide to them either. Even if we eliminate the leaders, new ones would rise. I really don't know what to do about them.
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:07 PM   #6
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CO2 is the scapegoat of radical enviromentallists. They say that within the last few decades, CO2 has spiked. Before this "spike", they've taken CO2 readings from arctic core samples. After the spike, from air samples on a pacific island.

Let's take a look at this....arctic CO2, low. Pacific volcanic island CO2, high....hmm, yes, it must be Humanity's fault....because -where- they are taking the samples from couldn't -possibly- affect their readings at all.....pft.

The Earth is a dynamic creature that throws it self into and out of ice ages and warming periods more violently then Humanity does. Be that as it may, I'm a full supporter and firm believer in the idea that we should be space faring as soon as freaking possible.
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:17 PM   #7
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I agree with Eviticus. We need to be in space right now.
Even IF GW is a serious threat, not that I personally beleive it is, the world's going to correct itself by throwing the temperatures to a new extreme: a low. Countless studies have proved tht the Earth runs in cycles, as previously stated by just about everyone. The Earth is heading for another Ice Age.

On oil dependancies:
If we are to survive as a species, we need to escape this planet. We're quickly overpopulating. We can't hope to use oil in our extra-terrestrial explorations and lives. It's not realistic. We need to harness nuclear power, or put Fuel Cells into mass production. Yes, thats right, they exist. They can also be mass produced. But as I'm sure you're quite well aware, they aren't. Why? Go to a gas station. Oil is too expensive to give up. The oil companies, and the goverment, want us to stay close-knit to oil, for the "good" of America. In reality, all it's doing is stalling our progress, running this once-great country even farther into the ground, and keeping us Earthbound. Why would they wan this? People are easier to control on a planet. That's all they need to justify this.

Adding "Frobidden" Topic: Science and workings of the universe. "Forbidden" because it frightens people, so they learn as little as possible about things like this. :/

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Old 05-14-2007, 08:25 PM   #8
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One thing about the nuclear fuel thing... yes I am well aware of the power it generates and what it can do but what about the other things? We have no means of ridding ourselves of the waste it generates or get rid of the uranium control rods, or whatever we use, in the reactors once they run out. Also if it actually is 95% renewable there is always that one word (or 3 if your ignorant) that makes people shy away. Chernobyl. (The 3 word is Three Mile Island). Granted having two heads would be kinda neat... Beeblebrox anyone?

Back on Radical Islam zealots the only real way to combat this is education. Any smart, as in common sense smart... terrorists are NOT stupid, know certain things are bad ideas. Use a rifle, shoot an American, and run away to live or strap on a bomb, run at them and most likely have a bullet wound the size of a football in your head? Or get offered to join the Insurgency, inform American troops, get free transport out for you and your family and be better off elsewhere? Granted any Iraqi with education and common sense are also the ones trying to make their new government work but unfortunately the latter vastly outnumber them and believe whatever they believe far to strongly.
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Old 05-15-2007, 12:19 PM   #9
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The thing about nuclear power is that for the amount of power it generates compared to more common oil or coal, it is extremely clean despite the byproducts. Until we figure out how to make a working fusion reactor that generates power, rather than using it, nuclear power is the best we have for pure power output. Solar power, and wind farms are good, but they're hardly dependable for powering large metropolitan areas..
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Old 05-15-2007, 01:01 PM   #10
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for religious extremist there is always a small group of those in any religion or political group. there is always pipl who will kill as an excuse for what they believe in and they believe its the right thing to do. not so long ago pipl who were against abortion killed the doctors who performed the surgery and also tried burning down these clinics. even though you take away the politics the religions and the cults pipl who are determined to their cause or even greed will always find a reason to kill for what they want. what we can only do is try to keep an open mind and respect those who have their own views and actually guide ourselves away from our primal instincts to kill. if religion can be open minded about men and women equality, or their taboos of covering their faces, not allowed to eat certain things, gay marriages as a born roman catholic i read the old and new testament, and i think they need to rewrite it again and that goes for other holy books of other religions. its human nature to change and we will always change no matter how much pipl try to keep things the same.
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Old 05-15-2007, 10:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythago
One thing about the nuclear fuel thing... yes I am well aware of the power it generates and what it can do but what about the other things? We have no means of ridding ourselves of the waste it generates or get rid of the uranium control rods, or whatever we use, in the reactors once they run out. Also if it actually is 95% renewable there is always that one word (or 3 if your ignorant) that makes people shy away. Chernobyl. (The 3 word is Three Mile Island). Granted having two heads would be kinda neat... Beeblebrox anyone?
Chernobyl was, undoubtedly, the worst accident in the history of nuclear energy. I think the overall death count was about 1000 or so. A thousand lives lost is a tragic thing. But when you consider that several thousand people die in coal mines every year, it suggests that nuclear is far safer than coal. (I'm not sure how many ppl die in oil-related incidents.) And when you consider that nuclear produces 80% of France's power, it makes it seem even more safe.

Also, Chernobyl was made by the Russians, who admitted they didn't know what the hell they were doing anyway. They had no training, no experience. Nuclear was in its infancy at the time. So many technological advances have been made in the past 40 years as to make a meltdown all but impossible.

Three mile island is a favorite of environmentalists. However, they'll never tell you that nobody died in that incident. Nope. NOBODY. It was a joke of an incident and was blown so far out of proportion. And they'll also never tell you how fast the malaria death rate has increased since they lobbied for the banning of DDT. Environmentalists lobbied for the banning of CFC's, which robbed third world countries of cheap refrigerants, thus making more heat-related deaths. And has the hole in the ozone gotten smaller? Nope. And lets all not forget why you're paying $3.20+/gallon for gasoline. The environmental movement made it so that oil companies could not build any more oil refineries. And now the demand for gasoline is exceeding our oil refining capacity! Way to go, morons.
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Old 05-24-2007, 09:16 AM   #12
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Evictus, you said we should be traveling in space ASAP, right?
As much as I'd like that to be true, I don't think we should. For one major reason:
If we do colonize other planets, do you honestly believe we'll take better care of that planet than we did earth? I mean...think of it like this.

Humanity is a disease that's currently infesting earth. And now we want to move to other planets? Sounds like an epidemic to me.

Of course, I'm anti-human so maybe I'm just biased.

On a side note, I'd like to start a religous discussion here at some point. Get your opinions on God/Gods/Godesses, his/her existence, his/her non-existence, etc.
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:54 AM   #13
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republican, democrat... 2 sides of the same coin. pretty much you get to choose who dictates your life. i dont like the idea of someone telling me what i can and cant put in my own body, that's absurd.
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatanSpork
Humanity is a disease that's currently infesting earth.
This statement is short-sighted, manipulative, and a gross oversimplification.

Lets take the Matrix example. Humans consume natural resources. Yes, this is true. For every tree we chop down, we plant another. We take crude oil and coal out of the ground, and yet after centuries of doing so, the supply has not run dry, and shows no signs of doing so anytime soon.

We pollute the environment. Yet that pollution has little to no impact on a global scale. Even if we continue at our current rate, the earth recycles our air faster than we can pollute it.

Urbanization has destroyed the environment? In some cases yes, in others no. Extinction is a normal part of nature, and is rarely caused by humans. Wetlands are disappearing, but I'm not entirely convinced that its man's fault.

Overall I must say that though man at first glance does seem to not be in harmony with nature, it doesn't seem like we're destroying it either. If man is a parasite, or a disease, then its an ineffective parasite indeed.
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
For every chicken/cow we chop down, we plant another.
ftfy
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:43 PM   #16
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Well since someone named SATAN wanted to know stance on religion...

Well I'll put it out that I'm Jewish. I love being Jewish. I love the fact my religion doesn't attempt to dictate my life for every little thing I do, from the people I marry to how I play with myself. My religion has taught me to question everything. Never take anything at face value (I believe is the term), including the Torah, peoples words, what you read or see, and the like. Hell, my Rabbi taught me that the biggest thing you can get out of Judaism is to figure out your stance on everything because all the "laws" and such are more like "guidelines." They aren't 100% "Follow or die!" like certain religions seem to follow but they are more along the lines of "Well we're prefer it if you..." sort of thing.

As for my belief on God... I believe in both evolution and creationism (if that's a word). I believe God started the universe, used his stellar pool cue and started the whole bang off and let everything go from there. Maybe he went to certain planets throughout the universe, sneezed some life onto them, and let things fly from there. I do not believe he has any direct impact on anything anyone says or does. He might lend his support, in some form or another, to people who earn it. I think he has better things to do then help someone get an A on his report card or help Fluffy get better or help some (c)rappers win a "Music" award.

On death... I believe once you die... Congratulations! Your dead! The nutrients in your body are now going back into the Earth from whence they came, at one time or another.

This is just my view and I tried to keep it as in-offensive as possible. I'd love to learn the views of other religions like Islam or Zen and such.
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:00 PM   #17
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Man is for the most part a virus, but an intelligent virus. Most viruses go about their business until the host dies, at which point the viruses die. However we have learned to protect our host in order to extend our own existence. Over the years we have created more of a mutual relationship with the earth than a parasitic one. As time progresses that mutual relationship gets even stronger as we develop even more environmentally friendly technologies. I personally will not be happy until the air smells of french fries. Glorious glorious french fries.
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barachiel
Man is for the most part a virus, but an intelligent virus. Most viruses go about their business until the host dies, at which point the viruses die. However we have learned to protect our host in order to extend our own existence. Over the years we have created more of a mutual relationship with the earth than a parasitic one. As time progresses that mutual relationship gets even stronger as we develop even more environmentally friendly technologies. I personally will not be happy until the air smells of french fries. Glorious glorious french fries.
So.....we're more like a symbiote? Humanity=Venom. Will Peter Parker rip us off? Or will we spread out to other whiney emo photographers....ok, bad analogy.
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Old 05-26-2007, 08:47 AM   #19
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A jab at my chosen name. Nice. Think of it what you will.
For now I contend that I am an atheist.

In all seriousness, I don't really see religion as anything more than a tool to keep humanity from panicking about death. (Heaven awaits the pure or 13(?) virgins await you upon death!) I've lost my faith in religion when I learned how intolerant of others it can be. Also...there is one statement that scares the utter crap out of me. If humanity is supposed to be molded in god's image...then what kind of god awaits in the kingdom of the dead? Considering what kind of cruelty humanity is capable of, does that mean that this god is a sadistic, war-loving monster? I just realized that my name + me bashing religion makes me seem like a satanist. I'm not! Honest! That reminds me. Why on earth does religion lump atheists and satanists in the same bed? That doesn't make any sense. Atheists don't believe in anything supernatural or religous (something along those lines). So why do we get lumped in with another religion? And don't kid yourself. Satanism is a religion. As a matter of fact, anything can be a religion as long as people worship it. For example, if people worshipped it, McDonalds could be a religion and Ronald McDonald could be the new jesus christ or anti-christ. All it takes is people to follow.


...on another note, I'm hungry.
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Old 05-26-2007, 12:35 PM   #20
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Kinda sad if your taking offense to me poking fun at your name. I was merely pointing out the irony of the situation, not in a sense of malice.

Also religion, which is basically used to sheep and herd the mindless masses which I can direct at almost all Religions so Judaism isn't free there, can be useful in times of strife when you just need someone to talk to and let things out at, even if he is an invisible friend, to get you the strength to go on. Or when you need to unite the people for a cause, hopefully a good one but usually not likely. But your also lumping to many religions into one in what your saying there and your throwing us non-conformist, free thinkers into the mix with the zealots (God Warrior anyone?) is a tad offensive to me and possibly others but hey, your view.

Honestly I say we won't know the truth about God and such until we kick the bucket and the only people who know are dead and frankly they ain't talking so I say believe whatever the hell you want to believe until that time comes.

Techniquelly McDonalds is a religion... so is Microsoft. I know people who DO worship them, or pretty close to it. It's kinda scary.
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