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Old 01-06-2008, 07:53 AM   #1
Monev
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Default Paladin

So i've been lurking for awhile throwing in my 2gil, or now copper since i've switched from FFXI to WoW and i got a question that doesn't involve my PC, also i've come here because i know u people actually are smart...compared to the 15y/os in trade or in my guild,

so i was wondering about PvE raiding..and i'm praying to whoever is listening, that i dont get baraged with "Healidin nao nao nao!" or "lolpriest in plate" after playing FFXI for 5years it's hot wired in my head that a healing paladin gets u killed (trust me, i have experiance with it, my linkshell tried it on tiamat because the tardadin used to play a holy paladin on wow) so, why isn't a paladin tank seen often? or at all? i mean i've seen the rare few, and by rare i mean...well u know how u step into a town and find out there's NOT a starbucks around? sadly that was my best analogy... i can kinda see why its rare to see DPS paladins, but why not see them more? is it that they pull too much hate, or just outdmged by other classes? or is it that my server is just retarded? any insight into this will help me,

P.S. sorry for wall of txt. buuut it's hard to get a straight answer from people on my server since nearly every pally is a holy pally

P.S.S. my Paladin is lvl 52 atm, i've done both Retrib and Prot spec on instances that lvl
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:10 PM   #2
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hmm, best I can say is.... as far as I can tell ret pally depends on a mix of weapon max damage, how slow the weapon is (more procs) and spell damage.

before lv 58... weapon choices are ok, plenty of 1 and 2 hand slow weapons but there is really isn't any spelldamage gear for a pally unless its mail, leather or cloth.

Its ok before 58 but not something that stands out really big

I'm doing a prot/ret spec atm Lv 51, kinda fun :p

1/2H weapon + reckoning + weapon that can already do an extra attack = crazy

Like I had a ST group last night with a enchance shaman.
Wind fury + thrash blade + reckoning + seal of command is like... 4 X attack with a chance to proc seal of command about 3 times... thats alot threat :P
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:56 PM   #3
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Here's a pic found of the fight start -> finish mostly lv 49-51 group mage, enchance shaman, spriest, holy priest pally

This is just the 6 trolls -> jammal + dragons + the dragon boss. not all the snakes n crap below
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:04 PM   #4
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I used to play pally a while ago before leaving the game and heres my take on each spec:

Ret/DPS - While pallys can probably do decent dps, theyre most likely never gonna lead the damage meters or for that matter even be close. They can do great spike damage, but thats not really great for raiding. Now, as a class that isn't doing incredible dps the next question is what do they do to aid the raid? Enhance shamans, dps warrs can all put various helpful debuffs/raid buffs during the instance but wheres the dps pallys? It's not an issue of them not being able to dps well, its that there are so many better options.

Prot - Not bad if you really put a lot of work in on the gear. Don't expect to ever really MT, probably stuck as an OT for life. Can off heal when needed fairly well too. From what I saw, they really needed to be in a stacked party to be really effective since mana was always an issue.

Holy - By far their strongest spec, the lolpriestinplate doesn't apply so much to raiding because healers shouldn't actually be taking hits. Trust me, from the content I saw 12k armour isn't gonna prevent you from dying if a boss decides to take a swing at you. Pallys give great buffs and can sustain healing for a really long period of time. Personally, I loved holy spec and probably wouldn't want to play pally any other way. With the right mods, I found both raiding and PvP to be very enjoyable. If you wanna play a holy pally check out both Grid and Clique mods. Will making you so much more effective and makes the healing a lot easier.

One last thing about the Paladin class, is that it's a Defensive/Healing hybrid. Personally, I hated ret spec during my leveling cause it was so slow and depended so heavily on crits. Can kill a mob in 3s or 30s if your attacks don't crit. Was terrible also in terms of mana usage. In a 10 min fight, I see you out of mana probably 20+% of the time. Don't take my word on this though, I never raided as prot or ret. Hope this helps.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulkeeva
hmm, best I can say is.... as far as I can tell ret pally depends on a mix of weapon max damage, how slow the weapon is (more procs) and spell damage.

before lv 58... weapon choices are ok, plenty of 1 and 2 hand slow weapons but there is really isn't any spelldamage gear for a pally unless its mail, leather or cloth.

Its ok before 58 but not something that stands out really big

I'm doing a prot/ret spec atm Lv 51, kinda fun :p

1/2H weapon + reckoning + weapon that can already do an extra attack = crazy

Like I had a ST group last night with a enchance shaman.
Wind fury + thrash blade + reckoning + seal of command is like... 4 X attack with a chance to proc seal of command about 3 times... thats alot threat :P
with Ret spec you use only weapons with 3.00 +slow weapons becasuse the slower it is the more Command will proc

Ret and Holy are good for PVP
Holy and Prot are good for Raiding
Prot is best for Soloing/lvling
Ret is best for lvling
Prot is a decent tank unless you got good gear then you can be a awesome tank

Right now Im putting everything into Protection so I can get the Multi hit as soon as possible.

Paladin isnt for those who dislike slow pace battles.

and until Blizzard fixes us .. Ret and Prot will never get the Rep it deserves...

P.S. if your going to be Ret put points into it until you get Crusader Strike.. it is Crucial
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:19 PM   #6
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Thanks a ton, really helped i'm currently BE 52 ret for questing, i'd respec but it'd cost 20g.....(clearly i have a bad time making my mind) That thrash blade idea sounds pretty good, never heard of paladin hybrids since..well few jobs r good hybrids, like Warrior, and i think Disc/holy priest.

As to the holy thing, i was just asking because everyone on my server "The Underbog" says Paladin is the best healer for singles, i know druid rocks the HoT and Priest has some good heals with Holy Nova and Lightwell, Personally i die alittle inside when i see a paladin in cloth D: or just holy, FFXI has wired my head to shun a paladin heals, even though i will admit they r good at it, i just wanna prove that a paladin isnt just a metal priest

btw here's my build for Ret and Prot my lvl, and what i'm hoping to be at 70, spec wise.

Ret: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZZxfct0zuifot

Prot: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0uIh0zTMat

And my 70 build for Prot: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZEbtIx0zgMqtV0x

Btw Gulk, u said u had a Prot/ret hybrid
was it something like this? http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhdIh0zxZxf0t
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monev
Thanks a ton, really helped i'm currently BE 52 ret for questing, i'd respec but it'd cost 20g.....(clearly i have a bad time making my mind) That thrash blade idea sounds pretty good, never heard of paladin hybrids since..well few jobs r good hybrids, like Warrior, and i think Disc/holy priest.

As to the holy thing, i was just asking because everyone on my server "The Underbog" says Paladin is the best healer for singles, i know druid rocks the HoT and Priest has some good heals with Holy Nova and Lightwell, Personally i die alittle inside when i see a paladin in cloth D: or just holy, FFXI has wired my head to shun a paladin heals, even though i will admit they r good at it, i just wanna prove that a paladin isnt just a metal priest

btw here's my build for Ret and Prot my lvl, and what i'm hoping to be at 70, spec wise.

Ret: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZZxfct0zuifot

Prot: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0uIh0zTMat

And my 70 build for Prot: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZEbtIx0zgMqtV0x

Btw Gulk, u said u had a Prot/ret hybrid
was it something like this? http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhdIh0zxZxf0t
Prot looks good but Imp Devote is rather pointless. if your gonna tank use Ret Aura.. it helps with hate

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0uIh0zTMat my Ideal Prot spec
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:39 PM   #8
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Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Ret Pallies will put out serious DPS if you put the effort into it. I've seen a Ret Pally in PvP (S1/S2) and T4 quality gear pull hate off the tank on Curator fight during first evocation.

You want to gear your Ret Pally like you gear a Arms Warrior. Slow weapon + lots of STR/STA. A little +mp/5 int is helpful, but if you apply to full STR/STA, you will put out some seriously big numbers.

Prot Pallies are pretty good, but can be trouble in situations where people like to CC. If you go Prot Pally, get to know how big your Concencrate is. The only problem I see mostly with Prot Pallies is they dump their mana incredibly fast.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyPeorth
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Ret Pallies will put out serious DPS if you put the effort into it. I've seen a Ret Pally in PvP (S1/S2) and T4 quality gear pull hate off the tank on Curator fight during first evocation.

You want to gear your Ret Pally like you gear a Arms Warrior. Slow weapon + lots of STR/STA. A little +mp/5 int is helpful, but if you apply to full STR/STA, you will put out some seriously big numbers.

Prot Pallies are pretty good, but can be trouble in situations where people like to CC. If you go Prot Pally, get to know how big your Concencrate is. The only problem I see mostly with Prot Pallies is they dump their mana incredibly fast.
Both Prot and Ret dump their mana quick lol and Yes what you said about Ret is True.. lots of people hate and make fun of Ret Paladin (Until I 5k Combo bashed their heads in)

Prot isnt really for PVP to begin with. Sure you get to tank the bosses but like ya said.. Casters will kill you fast... Rogues and Warriors are no longer a Problem.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuuri
hey it didn't take, go to the left of the talent calc and reclick classes to reset the url or it will stay the same D:
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monev
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuuri
hey it didn't take, go to the left of the talent calc and reclick classes to reset the url or it will stay the same D:
oh lol http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=s

EDIT:
well that failed too

here finaly XD http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVhZVGtI00dgMqtVb
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:19 PM   #12
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Well I'm 51 atm...

prot/ret oh joy?

Kinda like it
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:44 AM   #13
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I'm a Ret/Holy with a lot of emphasis on Retribution. I know the grinding is a bit slower than Protection with it's AoE farming, but I enjoy the playstyle more because it feels like Arms warrior.

I had a 4.0 delay BoE at one time which made SoC very worthwhile. I got fiery on it because SoC procs can also proc fiery (which means you'll sometimes see 2 fiery procs in one swing).

Paladins really are best in most situations as a Holy spec though. You're a PvE and PvP badass.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:23 AM   #14
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yeeaahhh..so i was looking at the Arena Season3 armor...and it's pretty sexy...and i'm afraid to ask since i see it alot, is holy one of the better arena specs? if not, which would u say is? and why?
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:32 AM   #15
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The most true statement in PvP applies here: Healers make or break PvP battles. Trust me, Pallies can outlast most physical damage dps, can kite rogues and warrs for days while your partner does the rest of the work. Healing in WoW can be a lot of fun and requires an anal retentive attention to detail, which I LOVE. Of all the jobs/classes II've played in the last 6 years of MMOs, a holy paladin is the one I missed playing the most. Pool is: FFXI: Ridill THF/WAR in FFXI, WoW: Mage, Lock.

CLIQUE AND GRID! mods you need as a holy paladin will make everything easier and better. Hopefully gulk and claude can vouche for my technique.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:38 AM   #16
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sounds good, cuz..well i'm a sucker for shiny things, paladin healing could be fun...specially since i'm a good healer..untill there's someone i dont like, then i let them die :D i guess i can bounce between holy and prot for whenever my guild needs whichever
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mags
The most true statement in PvP applies here: Healers make or break PvP battles. Trust me, Pallies can outlast most physical damage dps, can kite rogues and warrs for days while your partner does the rest of the work. Healing in WoW can be a lot of fun and requires an anal retentive attention to detail, which I LOVE. Of all the jobs/classes II've played in the last 6 years of MMOs, a holy paladin is the one I missed playing the most. Pool is: FFXI: Ridill THF/WAR in FFXI, WoW: Mage, Lock.

CLIQUE AND GRID! mods you need as a holy paladin will make everything easier and better. Hopefully gulk and claude can vouche for my technique.
Haven't tried clique, and I don't use grid but a similar mod called "smartbuff/smart debuff"

Warnds out of healing distance, click to remove debuffs, won't let you clense UA'ed people, shows hp/mp, class coded blocks, notice when buff not on someone or almsot off etc etc.

and yeah pally healings kinda crazy, 3K heals in like 1.5sec or something spam is OP! :P

randomly... thinking of making a soorta twink 60 pally... O_o
GOing to get a friend to help me get the 4000 damage absorb to sheild thing in netherstorm, 200 damage chest abosrb thing... ironfoe (3X attack chance), hand of justice (+1 attack), reckoning and seal of command (proc up to 3X in all that) /rawr

I'm up to 4X attack currently, hoping to get ironfoe sometime in the week while raiding + doing dailies + work >.>

Kinda Funny hitting someone 4 times a swing though, baby kraken club gogo?
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulkeeva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mags
The most true statement in PvP applies here: Healers make or break PvP battles. Trust me, Pallies can outlast most physical damage dps, can kite rogues and warrs for days while your partner does the rest of the work. Healing in WoW can be a lot of fun and requires an anal retentive attention to detail, which I LOVE. Of all the jobs/classes II've played in the last 6 years of MMOs, a holy paladin is the one I missed playing the most. Pool is: FFXI: Ridill THF/WAR in FFXI, WoW: Mage, Lock.

CLIQUE AND GRID! mods you need as a holy paladin will make everything easier and better. Hopefully gulk and claude can vouche for my technique.
Haven't tried clique, and I don't use grid but a similar mod called "smartbuff/smart debuff"

Warnds out of healing distance, click to remove debuffs, won't let you clense UA'ed people, shows hp/mp, class coded blocks, notice when buff not on someone or almsot off etc etc.

and yeah pally healings kinda crazy, 3K heals in like 1.5sec or something spam is OP! :P

randomly... thinking of making a soorta twink 60 pally... O_o
GOing to get a friend to help me get the 4000 damage absorb to sheild thing in netherstorm, 200 damage chest abosrb thing... ironfoe (3X attack chance), hand of justice (+1 attack), reckoning and seal of command (proc up to 3X in all that) /rawr

I'm up to 4X attack currently, hoping to get ironfoe sometime in the week while raiding + doing dailies + work >.>

Kinda Funny hitting someone 4 times a swing though, baby kraken club gogo?
Using clique & grid is basicly like using smartdebuff except you can customize everything.

Grid is just a basic Raid Frame. &

Clique lets you bind spells to mouse buttons & you're able to bind them for different things. Like you can bind your right mouse button so when you click on grid it casts Cleanse or when you click on a mob it Judges.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:51 PM   #19
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hmm well might try it.. I got all those "judgements" macroed though.. like I jam the 3 key it will...

seal of crusader (if its not already on) -> judge target -> seal of command -> judge -> seal of command

/castsequence reset=30 Judgement, Seal of Command

that and kinda hard to "click" who you wanna target if its a zerg rush.. or I don';t even try its like tab hit tab hit gogogo

and randomly... ice block and the new mana gems hawt !

pom pyro rape someone aoe spam.. when near death ice block and just sit there for 10 sec while 20 people try kill you... XD
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:22 PM   #20
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so, a holy/prot spec hybrid is what sounds right to me for a pvp paladin in arena how's this look?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sIxbMxuheZVMuI0cZV0o
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